New mpg standards

[jwight]

From Yahoo! and the AP:

"The auto industry's fleet of new cars, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and vans will have to average 35 mpg by 2020, according to the agreement that congressional negotiators announced late Friday."

Long overdue, IMO. And it includes trucks and SUVs!

[SmartBob]

It only took them 30 years. Gee I guess we needed a massive price hike on gas and a major threat of global warming to wake people up.

[Old smart]

I'm wondering if the new standards are for gasoline (now actually E10) or E85 or some other ethanol bilge that they are going to jam up our noses (which is also part of the bill!)? Mass-for-mass, ethanol has close to 30% less BTUs than straight gasoline to produce power from.

[Gortok]

What difference would higher standards mean if we (most likely) won't even be using that fuel at that time???

I saw a show on Discovery where these farmers are now planting switchgrass.
They say it has huge potential as a corn replacement for E85. Something like 5 times the amount of energy...
Needs no water, no fertilizer, and grows quickly in many different environments.
It's harvested like hay, rolled up into huge disks to go to processing...

I see changes a-comin'

[jonnysan]

Originally Posted by fishrdnc

I'm wondering if the new standards are for gasoline (now actually E10) or E85 or some other ethanol bilge that they are going to jam up our noses (which is also part of the bill!)? Mass-for-mass, ethanol has close to 30% less BTUs than straight gasoline to produce power from.

That most proponents of ethanol don't tell you that simple fact. 90,000 btu's of energy for ethanol vs 125,000 btu's for gasoline (mid grade)

And guess what that all equates to? Substantially poorer gas mileage using *wonderful* ethanol fuel. It's alittle better using E85 as there is 15% gasoline in it, boosting the heat value alittle.

All the hype with ethanol is still a faux pau in my book....

[jonnysan]

Originally Posted by Gortok

What difference would higher standards mean if we (most likely) won't even be using that fuel at that time???

I saw a show on Discovery where these farmers are now planting switchgrass.
They say it has huge potential as a corn replacement for E85. Something like 5 times the amount of energy...
Needs no water, no fertilizer, and grows quickly in many different environments.
It's harvested like hay, rolled up into huge disks to go to processing...

I see changes a-comin'

Still lots of research needed to fine tune the processing of switchgrass into ethanol, Gortok. Even corn ethanol processing has advanced greatly in the past 10 years due to Pacific Ethanol and Archer-Daniels-Midland's hard work in that field. But they have only begun the process with switchgrass. The input of fossil fuels to fuel the tractors and equipment to plant and harvest these crops remains a negative and until they learn how to do it more efficiently, ethanol's value won't be there. It will happen in time, just like other alternatives will mature as well.

[Gortok]

What other alternatives?
Biodiesel? CNG? Propane? Hydrogen (HHO/Water4GAS)?

This is one of the reasons that I'm holding off on buying this car. I think there will be huge breakthroughs over the next few years in electric/battery powered vehicles, as well. The fact that smart is putting out it's version in the UK now is proof of that. The Tesla shows that it doesn't have to be "cute", either...

[jonnysan]

Originally Posted by Gortok

What other alternatives?
Biodiesel? CNG? Propane? Hydrogen (HHO/Water4GAS)?

This is one of the reasons that I'm holding off on buying this car. I think there will be huge breakthroughs over the next few years in electric/battery powered vehicles, as well. The fact that smart is putting out it's version in the UK now is proof of that. The Tesla shows that it doesn't have to be "cute", either...

And the best one that is closest to fruition, Gortok, is the PHEV Smart and hopefully there will be one available in 2010. A simple trade in will do it for me.

[Karl Roth]

Why do we need the goverment to tell us what to do here. high taxes (fuel) and incentives (breaks for small bore stuff) are what created a cars... must not be smart enough
karl

[dbwill]

Originally Posted by smart-car-usa

does anyone know why the smart in the US has a 2005 MPG nearly 40; but they state the 2006 MPG lower at 35?

did the why they calculate MPG change or did the cars become less efficient?

www.smart-car-usa.com

The method of determining EPA mileage changed this for 2008 cars