In the UK, we are proud to only have the Smart "Chickenhead" logo. The tristar Merc badge is frowned upon.
If anything, the 451 is more of a Mitsubishi Daimler Chrysler.
The 451's reputation may now suffer from a questionable decision at MB to use the historically less dependable Mitsubishi drivetrain, but the smart is still designed and engineered by Mercedes.
I was hesitant to buy the new smart, given that it now has the Mitsubishi drivetrain, but I decided to put my faith in Mercedes having the good sense to oversee the design and production of the 451 engine, so as to not let their reputation in the U.S. become tarnished by using an inferior product just to save money on production costs.
Even though Mitsubishi produces and sells some of the worst vehicles on the planet, they are still as capable of producing a high quality product as any other engine producer; all they need is the proper level of oversight or incentive to do so.
My faith in Mercedes may be misplaced, but only time will tell...
Last edited by Jeanclaude; 10-31-2009 at 12:45 PM.
Reason: typo
The 451's reputation may now suffer from a questionable decision at MB to use the historically less dependable Mitsubishi drivetrain, but the smart is still designed and engineered by Mercedes.
I was hesitant to buy the new smart, given that it now has the Mitsubishi drivetrain, but I decided to put my faith in Mercedes having the good sense to oversee the design and production of the 451 engine, so as to not let their reputation in the U.S. become tarnished by using an inferior product just to save money on production costs.
Even though Mitsubishi produces and sells some of the worst vehicles on the planet, they are still as capable of producing a high quality product as any other engine producer; all they need is the proper level of oversight or incentive to do so.
My faith in Mercedes may be misplaced, but only time will tell...
I'm confused as to why you are calling this a historically unreliable drivetrain?
You do know that the Suprex engine in the 450 smart (yes, it is designed by Mercedes, built by Suprex) is known for not being able to make it to 100K miles without a rebuild, right?
Mitsubishi can't build a large engine to save their soul - they are known for producing excellent small engines, however.
I'm confused as to why you are calling this a historically unreliable drivetrain?
You do know that the Suprex engine in the 450 smart (yes, it is designed by Mercedes, built by Suprex) is known for not being able to make it to 100K miles without a rebuild, right?
Mitsubishi can't build a large engine to save their soul - they are known for producing excellent small engines, however.
Sorry to confuse you; when I said "historically unreliable", I was talking about the Mitsubishi engine. Don't know enough about Suprex, nor have I had any personal experience with them to be able to form an opinon of them.
As for Mitsubishi, I have plenty of personal experience with them and I do have an unfavorable opinon of them. Ever wonder why you don't see many ten-year-old Mitsubishis on the road?
That is why I change the oil in my smart every 3000 miles instead of the suggested 10000. I wouldn't drive my Lexus 10000 miles between oil changes, let alone a P.O.S. Mitsubishi, regardless of the quality of the oil. Great oil doesn't make up for lack of quality in workmanship and materials of the engine.
I rank Mitsubishi right up there (I should say down there) with Daewoo, Hyundai and Kia (to name a few). Sadly, most inexpensive cars are manufactured with the,"What do you expect for under $30,000?" mindset.
Last edited by Jeanclaude; 11-02-2009 at 09:10 AM.
Reason: typo
As for Mitsubishi, I have plenty of personal experience with them and I do have an unfavorable opinon of them. Ever wonder why you don't see many ten-year-old Mitsubishis on the road?
I rank Mitsubishi right up there (I should say down there) with Daewoo, Hyundai and Kia (to name a few). Sadly, most inexpensive cars are manufactured with the,"What do you expect for under $30,000?" mindset.
Most inexpensive cars such as the Daewoo, Kia, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are bought by the type of people who generally don't take good care of their vehicles in the first place which is mostly the reason you don't see a lot of them. Suzuki is in the same boat.
Vehicle maintenance isn't a priority in those people's lives. Cigarettes and booze come first, then maybe family, then friends and on down the list. Taking care of the one thing that takes them to work when they are actually working is the last thing on their mind.
My 2 cents why you don't see a lot of them on the road, I've had all five of the makes just mentioned - not one had ever left me on the side of the road. #1 is HOW you take care of a car, the materials they are made of isn't completely junk - that being said it isn't that high on a few of those (Daewoo).
Most inexpensive cars such as the Daewoo, Kia, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi are bought by the type of people who generally don't take good care of their vehicles in the first place which is mostly the reason you don't see a lot of them. Suzuki is in the same boat.
Vehicle maintenance isn't a priority in those people's lives. Cigarettes and booze come first, then maybe family, then friends and on down the list. Taking care of the one thing that takes them to work when they are actually working is the last thing on their mind.
My 2 cents why you don't see a lot of them on the road, I've had all five of the makes just mentioned - not one had ever left me on the side of the road. #1 is HOW you take care of a car, the materials they are made of isn't completely junk - that being said it isn't that high on a few of those (Daewoo).
What you've said about owner's responsiblity for timely preventive maintenance is true. Many of the people that buy the low end cars do so because they can't afford better, and other's buy them because its the least expensive way to fulfill a requirement for basic transportation.
Suffice it to say that what some people find acceptable, others feel falls short. I too, have owned the cars that I've dissed in this forum. That's why I can talk from experience. A car that makes it to 100,000 miles before needing a major repair should be a given. In this day and age of expected quality control any car should make it to 100,000 miles. Even Daewoo can do that. I expect that if I go to the extra effort of maintaining my vehicle beyond the expectations of the manufacturer, the car should be capable of responding in kind.
I owned a 1997 Suzuki (bought it new). I bought it for the gas mileage to commute to and from work. I maintained the vehicle in the same manner as I maintained my 1992 Lexus (bought it new, too).
I had to dispose of the Suzuki by the time that it reached 160,000 miles simply because I was tired of repairing it. It never "left me beside the road", but virtually everything except the engine had been replaced, including the transmission. Even though I changed the transmission fluid to synthetic, and it was changed every 25,000 miles, the trans still "came apart" at 112,000 miles.
I believe that the engine made it as long as it did because I always ran synthetic oil, and changed it every 3,000 miles. The Suzuki became history in 2001, and the Lexus (currently 282,000 miles) still has the original engine (uses no oil between changes), and original transmission (fluid changed every 25,000 miles). Same owner, same maintenance- different outcome....
Difference in initial purchase price; you bet, but a Lexus is no more than your typical Toyota. The reason that you don't see ten-year-old Mitsubishis isn't because of the initial purchase price. Remember, Mitsubishi markets high end cars, too... the quality just isn't there....
Hoping that my inexpensive smart will be an exception....
Hi everyone, Im new here.
I dont think a mercedes emblem on the smart is a bad thing. just depends on how you try to display the mercedes emblem.
If you remove the smart monogram and lettering in the rear and replace it with the Merc Star, then I, personally wouldnt feel right as it was as if Im trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes and say that its a 'Mercedes 42 SEL' or something. (get it 42=fortwo)
Anyway but if you take the Merc badge that is usually ontop of the hood for Sprinters, or M or G class Mercs, the one that is blue and silver with leaves and stuff, and place it somewhere on your car, that just shows that it is a Mercedes Product not a Mercedes Benz Vehicle. Tactful, yet elegant.As you can tell, I have done the latter. I think someone on this forum put what I was talking about on their gas tank lid.
The 451's reputation may now suffer from a questionable decision at MB to use the historically less dependable Mitsubishi drivetrain, but the smart is still designed and engineered by Mercedes.
Count yourself lucky that they didn't stick with the discredited Suprex engine; it was without a doubt one of the weakest mass-produced engines of the past 30 years (only a notch or two above the aluminium block Chevy Vega, perhaps) despite being a Mercedes-Benz design.
The "Purist" won't like it but I don't care. I missed the opportunity to convert my passion delivery position to a Brabus. So after much modification of the suspension, engine wheels etc. I decided that it was what AMG would make if they did a smart.
The air scoop and rear valance are from an OEM supplier to AMG.
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