My manual is in the shop along with the car so I can't provide the page number.
However, it indicates that some electronics (a series of 3 alpha letters I can't recall) remain in operation and could cause some damage if the battery is connected while towing all 4 wheels down.
I strongly suggest you read the manual.
My manual is in the shop along with the car so I can't provide the page number.
However, it indicates that some electronics (a series of 3 alpha letters I can't recall) remain in operation and could cause some damage if the battery is connected while towing all 4 wheels down.
I strongly suggest you read the manual.
I have an '08 and the manual has no such warning. The precise wording in the new manual would be helpful or a reference to it.
I have also towed the car over 10,000 miles now with no issues leaving the battery connected.
It would be very helpful if this issue about "some electronics remain in operation" which "could cause some damage" is cleared up. There is always some dark current draw to maintain computer settings, radio settings and with the smart I have no idea what else could be active with the key shut off.
If the car is in neutral and the key shut off and the clutch is disengaged the gears are freewheeling and no electronics can have any effect on that. What may be referred to would be the braking system and possibly the stability and traction control, but that could only be a problem if the key was left in the 'on' position. That is what the factory was concerned about - i.e., an owner either ignorantly or accidently leaving the key in the on position and systems active.
It is not just the battery being connected that presents a problem, that has to be in conjunction with the ignition key in the 'power on' position as well. If there is anything that I am not aware of, I'd appreciate further info. Thanks.
I have a 2006. I noticed most of the Americans are talking 2008+. Does the towing capability apply to the 2006 Fortwo as well?
I would bet they're not the same. The engine in the pre 2008 versions are smaller (52hp vs 72hp), so the towing capability is probably lower. But then the new version also has a couple hundred pounds on it's older sibling for safety equipment too, so...
ScubaGirl, are you talking about towing your smart 4 wheels down? If so the answer is yes. The manual doesn't OK it but many have been doing it for years. Put the shifter in neutral, turn off the key and remove it and you are good to go. You do need to find somebody to fabricate a tow bar for you.
I have a 2006. I noticed most of the Americans are talking 2008+. Does the towing capability apply to the 2006 Fortwo as well?
I think it might be best to not rely on comments made here but to verify that your car can actually be safely towed 4 down. My understanding is that it was approved starting with the '08 model year. There may have been a redesign in the transmission that permitted towing this way. It's a lubrication issue.
Just because people have towed the older smarts 4 down does not mean that it is advisable. Not all cars can be towed 4 wheels down since the transmission can be damaged due to lack of lubrication. Some manufacturers recommend limiting speed and stopping at intervals to start the car to lubricate the gearbox. With some car's it is also advisable to disconnect the driveline.
I would bet they're not the same. The engine in the pre 2008 versions are smaller (52hp vs 72hp), so the towing capability is probably lower. But then the new version also has a couple hundred pounds on it's older sibling for safety equipment too, so...
I believe the question is regarding whether the car can be towed, not about whether the car can tow - although her question is not perfectly clear.
If you look at the transmission/differential on a smart you will see they are together in a single casting. The differential area is actually the oil sump. If you pull the plug to check the oil you are looking at the ring gear. The ring gear turning is what slings the oil on the transmission gears and bearings. If the rear wheels are turning the ring gear is rotating and the transmission is lubricated.
The 450 has a 6-speed which is actually a 3-speed with a high and low range and the 451 has a 5-speed which is 5 speeds in a single range. The lay out with reference to the ring gear and lubrication is the same.
The shifter in the 450 does not have park like the 451. You can shut off the engine and electronics and remove the key in neutral. Much less hassle than the 451.
If you have a question if you are in neutral, go through your shut off procedure and with the hand brake off on level ground, get out and push the car. If it is in neutral it will roll, if it does not roll, you are in gear or park.
Mine is also a 2008. The manual that came with it actually discouraged towing all wheels down. I was told by my dealer that it was the European manual and that I could safely tow by putting the car in neutral and turning the ignition key as far as it would go to the left. I refused to take delivery of the car until I was provided with a letter from smart that confirmed my warranty would not be adversely affected by my towing the car according to these instructions.
When my car was recalled for the 2009 update I was also handed a new manual which mandates disconnecting the battery before towing. Since ignoring the instruction to do so might have invalidated my warranty, I chose to follow the instructions. Subsequently, as you know, my engine was ruined because the electronics do not immediately follow the gear lever into Neutral. But, because I had complied with the manual's instructions, the warranty WAS honored and I now have a new engine and 2 rear tires at no charge.
You may, of course, choose to ignore the 2009 manual if your car has not been updated with the 2009 chip and larger battery - or simply because you dopn't mind taking a chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortow
I have an '08 and the manual has no such warning. The precise wording in the new manual would be helpful or a reference to it.
I have also towed the car over 10,000 miles now with no issues leaving the battery connected.
It would be very helpful if this issue about "some electronics remain in operation" which "could cause some damage" is cleared up. There is always some dark current draw to maintain computer settings, radio settings and with the smart I have no idea what else could be active with the key shut off.
If the car is in neutral and the key shut off and the clutch is disengaged the gears are freewheeling and no electronics can have any effect on that. What may be referred to would be the braking system and possibly the stability and traction control, but that could only be a problem if the key was left in the 'on' position. That is what the factory was concerned about - i.e., an owner either ignorantly or accidently leaving the key in the on position and systems active.
It is not just the battery being connected that presents a problem, that has to be in conjunction with the ignition key in the 'power on' position as well. If there is anything that I am not aware of, I'd appreciate further info. Thanks.
Mine is also a 2008. The manual that came with it actually discouraged towing all wheels down. I was told by my dealer that it was the European manual and that I could safely tow by putting the car in neutral and turning the ignition key as far as it would go to the left. I refused to take delivery of the car until I was provided with a letter from smart that confirmed my warranty would not be adversely affected by my towing the car according to these instructions.
When my car was recalled for the 2009 update I was also handed a new manual which mandates disconnecting the battery before towing. Since ignoring the instruction to do so might have invalidated my warranty, I chose to follow the instructions. Subsequently, as you know, my engine was ruined because the electronics do not immediately follow the gear lever into Neutral. But, because I had complied with the manual's instructions, the warranty WAS honored and I now have a new engine and 2 rear tires at no charge.
You may, of course, choose to ignore the 2009 manual if your car has not been updated with the 2009 chip and larger battery - or simply because you dopn't mind taking a chance.
I too obtained a letter from the factory explaining that the 2008 car can be towed 4 wheels down. When changing the transmission programming, I was not presented with a new manual stating that the battery must be disconnected.
As, mentioned, I have towed the car over 10,000 miles without a problem and many others have towed long distances without disconnecting the battery either without problems.
The recommendation is given, for want of further clarification, for the reasons I have already outlined. Specifically that is to prevent the possibility of problems due to accidentally, or perhaps ignorantly leaving the key in the "on" position. The factory has no control over the use of their vehicles and wants to make certain that this possibility no longer exists when towing. In a similar vein, that is also why ladders come with warnings to not stand on the top, etc.
To inject a little humour into this discussion see - Product Liability Law: Ladder Warning Labels | Solicitr
If you have more information as to the actual cause of the problem you experienced it would be most helpful.
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