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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 09:00 AM
 
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Bruce, What year model car is this? It is the old 451 or the new 453?

And Jim, my owners manual says 7 days at -25C will damage the battery. But yes, I'm sure they insert a degree of conservatism in that recommendation. Also, owners manual wording is heavily influenced by lawyers to protect then from claims...

As far as the engineering behind the temperature recommendations I've messed with off-the-shelf large lithium cells in my home-modded electric motorcycles, and the research I've read generally describes the electrolyte design (ethelyene carbonate, dimethyl carbonate propylene carbonate and ethyl-methyl carbonate) as a balancing act between best performance and a sufficiently low freezing point. As far as I know, the most common mix used in automotive Li-ion cells has a freezing point of not much lower than -30C. So there is probably not a lot of conservatism in the recommendation. Also, the actually discharge performance degrades significantly starting at -20C. The charging efficiency is even worse. As far as I know, all lithium cells still need to be at least 0C to charge at a usable rate. That is why battery heaters are an essential part of all EV's outside of warm-side-of-subtropical climates.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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model is 451 2014


The average outside temp( night time ) was -15c with two nights at -26 this was during Feb . the other months Dec , Jan where about -9 c night time average . I did not know about the battery heater Thanks ! When I get this thing up and running I will just drive it during the Winter and use the Trusty Subaru on bad Snowy Days...

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Well you all see what I am up against ... A 3 hour Gilligan Island tour ...then wait a couple of days for them to do their thing and then bring it home ! I would half to take a couple of days off work !


What does everyone think about towing the car, in Neutral, at a slow speed to get the "juices flowing " sort of like forced regen drive. I have heard of people doing this with Nissan Leaf to charge their battery when they ran out of range ?
I used to do this with my Honda insight ( use the ICE while sightly touching brake would force re gen drive into action and charge the battery)
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 07:44 AM
 
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If you're going to do it, do it in drive, not neutral. Neutral is electrically disconnected between battery and motor.

I would guess that whatever Smart did to disable charging from the wall if the battery was totally flat, that they'd do the same to disable charging via regen and your plan won't work. (That's a guess, of course.)

If you do decide to do it (and whether I would or wouldn't would depend heavily on my mood that day), put a driver in the trailing ED, tow it forward in drive, and watch to see if you are getting any regen. If you do this, you want to regen extremely slowly, probably just enough to get the pack off of zero, and then switch to a wall-outlet charge.

Good luck.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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My mood today is TRY it.... But it changes hourly ....We are on the same page , Regen slow and just enough so I could put it on charge , was my though as well .

Maybe I'll try this week as my options run out .
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 11:50 AM
 
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I'm skeptical of the "tow start" myself.

But at least the winter temperatures were not too bad. The incursions below -25 were limited. I was afraid that you lived out west where last half of the winter was really brutal. I'm getting optimistic that the car can be brought back to life with a software reset.

Maybe you can find a mobile MB/Smart mechanic with a STAR syatem to come to you?

BTW, the Smart ED does well in snow with good winter tires. Its rear engine design with the battery pack pretty far to the rear too really helps the traction. With winter tires only on the rear wheels, it climbs my 20 percent sloping driveway on snow almost as well as the Subaru Outback does without winter tires. The range can be really lousy on colder winter days though - just half the summer range due to the battery pack heater heating such a small battery pack as well as the interior heater.

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Good to know about the snow ! It came with a set of nice snowies , (front and back).
I will look for a local mb mech with a portable OBD / MBSTAR , but their is really only 2 shops in the area that deal with MB.
That said I my luck out !
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 08:55 PM
 
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I hope you can get it running. The problem is, if the car's software detects some parameter (such as a temperature limit) it might "declare" the battery pack "dead" even to though it is still fine. The MB dealer service department will simply tell you: "the battery is dead and we can do nothing about it" - even if the battery cells themselves are physically fine.

There is an enormous amount of hyper-cautiousness around MB's treatment of the battery pack - it was designed as much by loss-prevention lawyers as engineers.

Is the battery diagnostic tool on the way from Jim S.?

- Paul D.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 08:04 AM
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Bruce - Jim and I both answered your private e-mail about the test unit. Just want to make sure you saw them.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 17,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 10,500 miles
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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yup ..just setting up paypal (forgot password )
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