P2177 System Too Lean Off Idle Bank 1 - Page 4 - Smart Car Forums
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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 06:10 AM
 
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Mine was a dirty K&N cone filter in CAI. Mine also stumbled on start up prior to cleaning and I have to tell you that I may need to clean it again. They get dirty fast here in Colorado.
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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 01:29 PM
 
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Dirty air filters try to offset things to the rich side, not lean. Either way, it only matters in transients and before the O2 sensor is warmed up... in the former case it's for too little time for the computer to care, and in the latter the computer doesn't know (by definition).

I've had a K&N air filter plugged up beyond what most here would consider sane at all (1/3rd atmosphere restriction by redline). The symptoms were terrible power, a little stumble on shifts, oil from the PCV vent (b/c of all the time I had to spend WOT to get anywhere), and a CEL for a dead barometric pressure sensor. The CEL presumably happened because the ECU trusts the MAP sensor more than the barometric pressure sensor, so if they don't match up it assumes the baro sensor is the one that failed.

I didn't get any AFR issues at all. No CEL related to it, and the actual AFRs were exactly the same as they've always been.

It's doubtful your air filter was nearly as clogged up as mine, since mine only got that way because I lost the bolt holding in the intake (Genius, same as yours). Usually the vibration from the engine keeps it clean enough that it never gets past 1/15th atmosphere restriction at redline WOT. I drive 3/4 mile of dusty gravel road twice every day, so mine does see plenty of dirt.
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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-29-2012, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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I have a drop in K&N. I occasionally got the code, cleaned the filter, still occasionally got the code, dealer said it was the air box not being fastened properly, now I get the code constantly, and it stumbles sometimes when starting.
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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 05:22 PM
 
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Check where your intake seals to the head. There are I rings that seal the intake manifold I have seen them leak air. You can spray brake cleaner or spray starter on the intake and watch the idle change (spray carefully). I use to be a tech a the s art dealer and saw a few of them do that.
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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 05:25 AM
 
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Does anybody in hear know how to remove and clean the MAP sensor. My CEL light keeps coming on every two-4 weeks. I am suspecting it is the MAP sensor. I already took it in for inspection they found no leaks or issues with it. They already cleared the code, but it keeps coming on. My guess is the MAP sensor has become dirty, same thing happened with my Toyota, but the MAF sensor was visible?
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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-22-2013, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Owen Nevins from Eskew Automotive found that I had a crack in my tubing that could be causing the CEL to come on
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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-23-2013, 07:14 AM
 
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My other posts have discussed my prob. quite a bit.
In short here's what I had.
2 months ago engine light came on...diagnosed that #1 running lean. Something reprogrammed and fixed...I guess.
Recently engine light came on again and #1 running rich.
Had to cough up $$$ for a new oxygen sensor and so far so good. I've got about 33,000 miles on my '08.
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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 06:14 AM
 
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I just recently experienced a 2177 check engine code error. I also had a drop in K&N filter that was extremely dirty. I pulled out the K&N filter and installed a stock replacement filter and the next time I started up the car check engine light was off. The only reason I knew to try this fix was because of reading this thread. Love this forum!!
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 12:43 AM
 
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Old thread, but seems to be fitting for what I am presently experiencing. However, a definite fix does not seem to be in this thread.


Just made a move from Tx to Ok and all my tools and equipment are still in boxes somewhere. Can't put my hands on anything at present. I had to return to Wichita Falls and when I did, my car suddenly started hesitating as if I had bad gas of something. My plugs are not old and all the filter and oil was changed not that long ago. Low mileage on my 2010 Smart Passion since I did the original plug, filter and oil changes.


The car had the check engine light come on the day before this happened last. However, the code cleared easily and no problems until I did a longer drive. That is when the car suddenly started hesitation as if there was a fuel mixture problem happening. The car would not drive faster than 50 MPH and even then, if on a hill, it bogged down immediately. I could not press on the gas pedal and get the engine to rev high. The codes then showed up as P2177 and PO301.


Unfortunately, I had to have the car towed back home and, as I said above, no tools to do much of anything at present. May be a bit before I can locate my tools for my Smart, as well. Movers packed things and failed to list what box they were packed away in. It is like digging to China to find even a screwdriver. :-(


Any rate, I didn't want to cause more issues or potential damage, so the car is parked outside and not in use, presently.


I looked over the engine bay when all of this first happened to get a visual of any broken or pinched tubes or hoses there. I didn't notice anything. The engine was not hot and neither was the engine bay when the car started in doing this bucking or hesitation. I will be checking the spark plugs first if I can get to my tools and then the air filter for cleanliness. I don't see any Smart dealerships or repair centers near Ada, Oklahoma, so I'll be looking to find a local foreign repair shop that may have some experience with these cars if I can't resolve the issue.


Like say, this started up one day and then the car ran okay. I had just purchased gas in the morning and had driven maybe 150 miles with no problems noted before it started in doing this hesitation behavior. It did seem to clear after I slowed down, but within a few miles (maybe 20 or so) the car again just started hesitation and had no power at all.


In trying to decipher the codes and what others had found with these symptoms, this thread seemed to fit. It may take me a few days before I can really check out the spark plugs and coils, but just trying to find out if I am on track or not at determining what the main issue is. I know this is an old thread, but my internet access is severely limited at present as I await the local guy to come install the complete system here in our new home.


Any thoughts as to this issue and how bad or easy a fix it may be?
Thanks for any insight.
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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 01:12 PM
 
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P2177 code

I too am experiencing the returning 2177 code, no other indications of anything wrong with the performance however. Code reoccurring over the last 20,000 miles, car has 150,000 miles on it. No vacuum, or exhaust leaks that I have been able to detect. I'm going to throw some new plugs at it, and also new 02 sensors, just because stuff doesn't last forever, and it would cost at least that much to take it in and have some other yahoo tell me his best guess. It's my G/F's car and the last time she took it in for the same code, they changed the throttle body and air filter, and had the 2177 code tagged as too rich. So I have zero faith in the dealer. This set of plugs has about 100,000 miles on them, so I figured she got her money's worth out of that set, and I should be able to see if the car is actually running lean or not by looking at the plugs. Both 02 sensors along with the plugs is $170, cheaper than taking it to the dealer. Read somewhere that 02 sensors should last the life of the car, and elsewhere that they should be changed after 100,000 miles. I don't think after what I've read that anyone knows the specific cause of the P-2177 code, other than it is a lean off idle code which could be caused by an intake leak after the MAP sensor (intake gasket), exhaust manifold leak, or 02 sensor. Since my situation only seems to be the MIL itself, I'm going with the 02 sensors. I will post back if this fixes my issue or not.
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