Anybody installing a ham radio in the smart? - Page 3 - Smart Car Forums
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post #21 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-01-2008, 10:22 AM
 
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I saw in the owner's manual, that the tire pressure monitor sending units could have their signal confused by a two way radio. Does 2m or 440 affect the tire monitors. I don't have a clue what is the frequency of these sending units. I am considering using a Comet lip mount antenae. I haven't looked any futher into installation of this or the radio. 73s, N8PGX
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post #22 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-01-2008, 11:07 AM
 
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According to the FCC the TPMS would have to be a Part 15 device...

Everyone seeing where I am going with this?


Here is the deal... Part 15 RF emitters/receivers must cause no harmful interference with any licensed service and must accept interference from all licensed services...

Part 15 devices include your garage door opener, TV, car key fob, the car electronics, baby monitors, wireless house phones... RC model planes and cars etc.. and these TPMS units....all must comply with FCC part 15 rules

Smart can make all the claims they want...but the car is sold in America and must comply with FCC rules....

So a safety system is acknowledged by MB in the owners manual to be susceptible to interference from two way radio.... ??

humm.... seems to me they have a warranty issue from day one... all cell phones are two way radio... FRS and GMRS and Amateur are licensed services as is local police and Fire departments..

What this means is that your Amateur radio should not be interfered with by the key fob or the TPMS system.... and if it is, the manufacture (MB) must correct the interference issue by better frequency stability and proper power levels.....

I have never seen a key fob cause any interference in an Amateur radio...alternator whine, fuel pump hash yes, but not these low power RF devices so I expect no interference from the TPMS

Part 15 rules also means that if your legal operation of your Licensed Amateur radio gear interferes with the key fob, TPMS or other RF systems, causes malfunctions, or indicates an error, the manufacture must correct that condition.... good luck every getting that done though

All of us considering installing store bought 2M/440 uhf/vhf FM transceivers can usually bet the 50 ~75 watts ERP and the suppressed 2nd and 3rd order harmonics will not adversely impact any of the on board electronic subsystems in the Smart car

Those considering a Yaesu/Icom/Kenwood 1.8Mhz to 30Mhz HF transceiver usually are clean enough with the typical 100 watt finals...

However, if you add a 300watt or higher amplifier the 3rd 5th and 7th harmonic can be strong enough to cause some grief.. usually in the on board ECU and it communications link(s)...

You can not damage, kill, or harm the system with Amateur level RF on any of our assigned bands.... But high power can make it confused...

Stop transmitting the high powered dirty signal and reboot the ECU (turn the car off them back on) and all will be good.
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post #23 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-01-2008, 06:47 PM
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I did have my Kenwood TM-733 cause issues with my cruise control on my 1995 Ford Thunderbird everytime I keyed up.






BTW this month makes my tenth aniversery of being a ham.
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post #24 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 04:37 AM
 
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How about 1500 watt Alpha amp with a 2m yagi on the roof? I wonder if the transmitter in the wheel is on 11 meters? LOL
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post #25 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-02-2008, 06:23 AM
 
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Dave congrats.....I still have a few years... always had the interest just no time or money for the ARS hobby/service... Finally got into it in 01

I spent hundreds of hours helping my dad build various Heath Kits, usually when we were overseas.

Back to the Smart fortwo.... Just for personal interest I plan to put my car in close proximity to my base high power station and see if I can cause any of the systems to behave poorly in a strong RF environment...

My Ford Truck's PCM shuts down the motor at 500+watts on 40 or 80 meters but nothing above 20 meters has any negative impact...OTOH... getting rid of the fuel pump broad spectrum hash was a frustrating and tough to conquer issue.... sure hope this MB system is a lot quieter
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post #26 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-03-2008, 07:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCOCHRAN View Post
I saw in the owner's manual, that the tire pressure monitor sending units could have their signal confused by a two way radio. Does 2m or 440 affect the tire monitors. I don't have a clue what is the frequency of these sending units. I am considering using a Comet lip mount antenae. I haven't looked any futher into installation of this or the radio. 73s, N8PGX
A lip mount on the tail gate looks like it might work. Should be able to pick up a ground there. The rear window defrost loops may help or hurt rad pattern, but in a mobile install it should be ok as long as it doesn't absorb power.

The main problem with thru-the-glass mounts is not on transmit, but on receive. The loss can be great. ("if you can't hear em, you can't work em"). )

Old WB6 call here, and long time Vhf, Uhf, Atv, antenna builder. 73s

A2Jack.
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post #27 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 05:42 PM
 
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Comet mounts will work on the rear window glass. I am going to install the RS 730 bracket on my Passion. If you get to Dayton this year, my car will be on display at the Comet area in the main arena. 73s.
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post #28 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-10-2008, 05:26 PM
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Battery Area - Radio Mount?

I've been eagerly awaiting my smart...configured in March.

I found a copy of the manual online. It looks like there's a bit of room under the foot rest on the passenger side...near the battery.

Is this just because not everything is in the picture? Or, is there really some space there? It would be a good place to mount the radio, then put the control head up on the dash.

Good ideas about antenna mounting. I was looking at a glass mount on the windshield as well, don't have many other options as I'm getting a Cabrio.

I'm also thinking I might be able to make a bracket that would attach under the front cowl, or maybe even next to the tailgate.

But, it's all just speculation right now...I can't start anything until it arrives.

I do find it interesting that the ham bands are called out specifically in the maximum power ratings chart.

The transmitting power of the telephone or
radio must not exceed the following maximum
values.

Frequency range (band) ** Maximum transmitting power (Watts)
Short wave (<50 MHz) ** 100 watts
2 m wavelength ** 50 watts
0.7 m wavelength ** 35 watts
0.25 m wavelength ** 10 watts
FYI, I'm looking at IC-2820 as D-Star is perty active where I am (Orange County, CA).

Michael / AF6FB
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post #29 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 04:52 AM
 
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Michael

I too saw the interesting note or caution on RF power levels...see my note above about FCC Part 15 devices...

I think it interesting that the power levels for <50Mhz, 2M and 70cm are exactly what most rig are supplied with power wise

I find that mobile HF (<50Mhz) at 100 watts into a inefficient antenna sux so I usually run a 300 or 600 watt external amp... but I already decided not to run HF in this car so I really do not care about that particular limitation.... for 2M or 440 the 50w or 35w factory power levels are good enough for all repeater use and OK for some simplex. I don't chit chat on UHF much so I don't need a 160w brick to keep long distance simplex QSOs going....but if you are used to "helping" your 2M with one it may be an issue


However I seriously doubt any of us with RF problems will ever get the Mercedes folks to properly shield their computers even if our Laws demand it... IN the past I have been successful in forcing Ford to configure my vehicle same as they do a police car and provide me with the fuel pump EMI kit... but that is a whole other "story"

Back to ham radio in the smart.... I suspect there are several good locations for the "body" of most rigs and the standard separation kit control cable provided will be more then long enough to reach every location in the dinky car.

If you dealer has the rolling cut away chassis to look at you will see that there are a LOT of antenna locations .... for example we could put the mount on the opposite area from where the factory radio antenna goes... that triangular flat area in front of the door mirror. I like the center rear of the roof but for Cabrio folks that is not possible. But a compromise might be the upper rear Tridion area...it is hollow so the feed line can be snaked into the rig and it would be the perfect ground counterpoise
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post #30 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 07:13 AM
 
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My car will be on display at the Comet Antenna area in Hara Arena in Dayton. The car will have many different types of Comet antennas on it. Icom will also be displaying the latest DSTAR mobile rig in the car as well. Just look for the full size smart banner above the Comet display. 73s
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