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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Folks,

I have had my Pure for almost five years. been a member here for the same amount of time. You people post 99% of the answers I am looking for. But,

I went to change the oil in the LEM today, pulled the oil plug and the treads came with it. A few colorful four letter words later. I found that there was enough treads left to tighten down the plug. The thing is who has had the oil pan replaced or has done it themselves and how much for the parts, and where to get the pan from.

Any help is appreciated.

Marc
 

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This exact same thing happened to my Pure last summer. I ended up using a plug from a Dodge diesel which is about 1/4 inch longer to seal the drain hole. Last 2 oil changes I have used an oil extractor. It looks like an old style gas can with a pump handle so you can draw a vacuum and 'suck' the oil up through the dipstick tube. It takes about the same amount of time to drain the oil, and you still have to change the filter underneath, but it is a heck of a lot easier than fighting with that drain plug. Make sure the oil is warmed up good so it flows through the small plastic tube.

Liquivac Topsider Oil Changer | Oil Extractors| Northern Tool + Equipment

I have heard changing the oil pan out is not an easy job. The Time Sert is the best way to repair the plug hole but they are not cheap either.
 

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Helicoils are not suggested for oil drain plugs, they can leak oil.
I understand that to be the case with plugs thst have tapered threads. Would that be the case with plugs that rely on a washer or gasket for the seal?
Spark plug threads are often repaired with helicoils and they are under a lot more pressure, but they do have washers.
 

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...long before there were Time Sert or Keen Sert there was Helicoil saving the world from pulled out thread...
..when done right Helicoil gets the job done no matter the environment they live in...

Jetfuel...BTDTFT...
 

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I just recall when the spark plug threads blew out on the Ford, they said that the TimeSerts were a better choice as they would seal from oil leaks and hold better than the Helicoils. I have used a bunch of Helicoils back when I had Corvairs which had aluminum blocks and the oil pans would tear out the threads and leak oil.

TIME-SERT® inserts have no prongs or tangs to break off or deal with down in the hole, which can be a problem in deep holes.

TIME-SERT® inserts are self-locking having an actual locking feature which will prevent them from coming out when a bolt is removed. On installation the bottom few internal threads of the insert are cold rolled to expand into the mating external threads of the base material locking the insert in place.

TIME-SERT® inserts have a flange, which will give them a positive placement on installation for “accurate specific depths”. This ensures that the insert does not wind down into the threaded hole.
 

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The thing about using a helicoil insert for a drain plug repair... First, you must make absolutely sure the insert is slightly below the surface so that the copper gasket will compress against the aluminum boss and not the insert, if not a guaranteed leak...
Second, by installing a helicoil you have cut down the surface area for the copper gasket to seal against...In some cases a larger outside diameter gasket and even a larger flanged head drain plug may be necessary..
At any rate, a helicoil can be used if you pay attention to detail...:wink:
 

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..to follow up..
..the Time Sert built in flange for positive placement and installation requires a steady hand....and I mean steady...to obtain the specific depth....

Jetfuel....shaking already...
 

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Not an easy task hanging under a car to do. and then you need to pay attention where those metal shavings end up...
If I had it to do over again, I'd go with one of those rapid oil drain valves.
 

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...using beeswax...or even soap from a bar will help pull / hold the shavings from the drilling process...
...the size of the person hanging under the car matters too...

Jetfuel...luvU2
 

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I'd find a good shop to do this. My friend owns a classic car shop and is darn good at these repairs. I would call around. Most towns have a good classic shop.
 

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Not an easy task hanging under a car to do. and then you need to pay attention where those metal shavings end up...
If I had it to do over again, I'd go with one of those rapid oil drain valves.
I'm a true believer in them. I don't trust anyone to change my oil...it's just too easy for some minimum wage earner who doesn't have an interest in your vehicle to screw up. And the pain of dealing with it later. My wife took her Accord in once (I was deployed, that's my escuse), and they stripped the threads. Major PITA.
Get a rapid drain. One of the first mods I did on my smart. Quick, clean, and NEVER worry about the threads again. Qwik Drain Oil Valve
Best thing for peace of mind...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just got off the phone with the dealership. $194 for a new pan, one word-OUCH. I will still think about the different ways to fix this. $194 plus labor is a little out of my reach right now.
 

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The labor will be a lot more than $194, and I mean a whole lot more. Having resealed the oil pan on my 2009 I can understand why the part costs so much. Everything mounts to the oil pan so it's very substantial. That also drives up the labor because so much must be unbolted from the pan to pull it.

Good luck!


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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This exact same thing happened to my Pure last summer. I ended up using a plug from a Dodge diesel which is about 1/4 inch longer to seal the drain hole. Last 2 oil changes I have used an oil extractor. It looks like an old style gas can with a pump handle so you can draw a vacuum and 'suck' the oil up through the dipstick tube. It takes about the same amount of time to drain the oil, and you still have to change the filter underneath, but it is a heck of a lot easier than fighting with that drain plug. Make sure the oil is warmed up good so it flows through the small plastic tube.

Liquivac Topsider Oil Changer | Oil Extractors| Northern Tool + Equipment

I have heard changing the oil pan out is not an easy job. The Time Sert is the best way to repair the plug hole but they are not cheap either.
I use the Topsider... Change oil every 5000 miles... The Smart is 2009, and I had it from New, and it is now 4 1/2 years of ownership... The pan plug was put in at the Factory, and HAS NEVER BEEN REMOVED...!!! Its been Sucked Dry 7 times with the Topsider...<:)) Its neat, clean, and ends up right in the holding can... Guess what... "Drum Roll"... NO STRIPPED DRAIN PLUG...<:))
 

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The labor will be a lot more than $194, and I mean a whole lot more. Having resealed the oil pan on my 2009 I can understand why the part costs so much. Everything mounts to the oil pan so it's very substantial. That also drives up the labor because so much must be unbolted from the pan to pull it.

Good luck!


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
Resurrecting an old thread here.

I am working in this area replacing a crankshaft pulley. The threads of my oil plug were damaged by a shop (not me I always used a torque wrench and did all the oil changes) when I got some tire work. Probably a neophyte went around tightening bolts as a 'check' and 'tightened' the oil pan plug. This is why one needs to use caution where they take their Smart for service and don't forget the wheels are 15mm not 17mm bolts like a lot of cars requiring less torque. Easily, carelessly can be over torqued by an ignorant servicer and stripped by an air gun. I have managed to install the oil plug without leaking for 4 or 5 oil changes and it works the way I did it and tightened slightly with a wrench but it bothers me to have these stripped threads in the oil pan..

I bought a used oil pan several months ago from a junk yard. Working in that vicinity changing belts I took a look at the oil pan to see the logistics of removal. Looks like BIG TIME! PIA! The oil pan has 4 threads on the side toward the top you can hardly see from looking under the car. The left 2 threads are the mounts for the AC compressor with one fastener looking like a major PIA to get to. The third thread over has a clamp holding a cooling rubber hose. The 4th fastener on side top (of the oil pan) is another cooling hose holder clamp-fastener.

It might be easier to lower the engine to make it easier (or raising the body I should say) The engineers at the factory did not cut anyone any breaks on self-service ease on some things, IMO.

Another thread has some information here though not much:

It does mention: "Remove/install Carrier for Front Engine Mount." The author of the post claims it took "3 hours" to take two fasteners off and one hour just to put one fastener back in and one fastener he couldn't put back in.

I did take a halogen light under the car and lit up the area. The car needs to be raised higher. The side fasteners that are very hard to get to (to remove) look like normal metric heads (like 10mm perhaps). It does look like according to the other post about this, that the front engine mount needs to be removed to get a wrench in there for the furthest-right fastener.

According to a video I saw about a mechanic swapping a longer thread bolt (but you loose the wire mesh filter) "temporarily" before he changed the pan (he never changed the pan so he must have felt the longer bolt for the stripped thread was enough considering the effort) MB has the job of removal at 1.6 hours (no way for me to verify) BUT, if that is correct there is a classic way to do this job that is not published. I could not find anything on the 451 pan removal on the Evilution Smart-car encyclopedia site. They apparently do not have a solution (or it is there and I am using the wrong search criteria) There is an easy way MB does this perhaps using a special spanner, etc. IMO today, it you do not do the classic way to do this (unpublished) it is going to be a long winded, frustrating exercise and most likely like the person who posted the above thread link - you will not get both fasteners back in.

It (Smart 451) appears to have a limited lowering of the engine routine: one removes the main mounting bolts (along with a couple other things) and replace, just screw in, with longer bolts (and MB has part numbers for the lowering pin bolts but they are given at Evilution) These act as lowering pins for safe partial engine lowering (to gain engine access) The lowering pins also keep engine aligned to fast jacking back up. MB service probably does this all the time and can do it in 10 minutes, imo. That would explain the 1.6 hour oil pan R&R. (open to correction)

Looking at the Evilution site it appears that partially lowering the engine looks very easy. Looks like lowering could be done in less than a half hour. All fasteners to lower appear easily reachable. Perhaps this is the 'classic' way to do it. (one cannot over-stress the safety considerations of working under a vehicle - I make jackstands/jacks redundant.)


63096


Phil
 
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