[Yinzer]

12 Volt Battery Drain Measurement

I finally got around to measuring the 12 volt battery drain on my 2015 ED as I mentioned earlier - but the story ended up becoming more complicated than just a measurement.

Test:

To take the measurement without damaging the multimeter from the initial power supply inrush current when the battery is reconnected, I first connected a jumper across the negative terminal and ground so I could, as fast as possible, disconnect the jumper and connect the multimeter.

But with the meter at fused 0-200mA range, upon connection the meter fuse still blew. So I switched to 0-20 A unfused and at about the same time (by coincidence or something i did?) I heard the battery pack contractor close, even though the key was not even in the keyswitch. The meter showed reverse current (i.e. negative to chassis) at about 1.3 A and creeping downward. The battery showed 13.4 volts and rising (resting is < 12.8 V). So the car had turned the DC-DC converter on all by itself and the battery was charging.

After maybe 10 minutes, the I heard another thunk of contactor opening and the current switched to normal flow first at about .9 amps for a few minutes then down to 50-60ma (0.05 A on the meter becasue I had to use the high range) where it stayed for at least 1/2 hour until I ended the test.

Conclusions:

1. It seems that at least some 451 ED's DO have a program routine to keep the 12V battery charged while parked, on some kind of schedule or triggered by some condition. Everybody should check if there is powertrain control unit flash update available for their VIN. I recall that I got some kind of flash update on my ED on the first service visit in 2016.

[edit - it was the second visit in 2017]

2. Assuming this periodic charging from the HV battery does not occur, then with a 60mA draw and the equipped 42 ah battery, the car will draw the battery down in 29 days - or say 20 days with a reasonable safety factor. The car then goes into "suicide mode" after that. How long it takes to drain the HV pack in suicide mode is still unknown...

3. Considering the consequences, I'm still going to connect a charger to my 12V battery if the car is going to sit more than 2 weeks just to be safe.

 

[MB DNA]

Conclusions:

1. It seems that at least some 451 ED's DO have a program routine to keep the 12V battery charged while parked, on some kind of schedule or triggered by some condition. Everybody should check if there is powertrain control unit flash update available for their VIN. I recall that I got some kind of flash update on my ED on the first service visit in 2016.

GOOD STUFF - thanks for taking the time and SHARING!!!

Do your service records happen to indicate the Campaign # of the software update?

This could be THE MISSING LINK . . .

 

[Htiek Jenkins]

Mine sat.more than a week a few times, no charge loss

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Yinzer]

GOOD STUFF - thanks for taking the time and SHARING!!!

Do your service records happen to indicate the Campaign # of the software update?

This could be THE MISSING LINK . . .

Sorry for not replying sooner. After my OP I headed out to my getaway place in West Virginia - no cell phone, no internet, no nothing. Paradise!

But regarding the service campaign, my 2-year routine service and replacement of a bad A/C temp sensor on June 6, 2017 also had this item on my invoice:

"OPEN CAMPAIGN
2016060002 451 BATTERY SOFTWARE"

At the time I saw this item 2 years ago, I has figured that it was just some minor tweak to make the car's range estimation or SOC gauge work better. But this service campaign actually be our Holy Grail! (Just don't get near that Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog)

 

[MB DNA]

Digging up a Zombie post of my own from 9/6/2016

Memory is the first to go . . .

So, I have had the mystery 451 Battery Software---2016060002 Updating Battery Control Unit applied to Sparky 3 years ago.

And the key takeaway from that visit to my "vanishing" smart Center - "In true Service Writer fashion, when asked the nature of the update - he had no idea?"

https://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/1388049-post11.html

 

[MB DNA]

Interesting SB list but no magic pill for 451 ICE/ED???

Service Bulletins for 2013 smart

Bulletin Number: LI07.04-P-059726
Engine diagnosis warning lamp (CEL) is active due to fault codes - P2237 & P2626.

Bulletin Number: LI07.61-P-063263
Smart 453 Engine diagnosis warning lamp activated - Fault code P261000

Bulletin Number: LI29.10-P-051288
Brake pedal/carpet seal does not fit properly

Bulletin Number: LI35.30-P-061135
Slight leakage at right side shaft

Bulletin Number: LI46.35-P-064622
Noise from area of electric steering

Bulletin Number: LI54.10-P-055824
Charging complaints - Initial analysis

Bulletin Number: LI54 10-P-067824
Charging socket/charging cable: Charging cable lock jams (P12E900, P13E800)

Bulletin Number: LI54.25-P-068219
Light switch/combination switch, fault code stored

Bulletin Number: LI54.30-P-061127
Instrument cluster - Fuel gauge does not indicate "Full"

Bulletin Number: LI80.20-P-064069
Outside door handle does not return to end position

Bulletin Number: LI80.50-P-061700
ATA goes off

Bulletin Number: LI80.50-P-068067
ATA triggers without obvious cause

Bulletin Number: LI8260P063836
Smart audio system - Radio inoperative - New software available

Bulletin Number: LI8260P069270
Media system, poor sound quality via AUX IN

Bulletin Number: LI82 70-P-067315
smart media system: Telephone connection is made, communication is not possible

Bulletin Number: LI82.85-P-053710
Fault profiles and measures for Highline radio, SA code 527

Bulletin Number: LI82.85-P-061173
smart media system cannot be operated, touchscreen does not react, interference noise during voice control

Bulletin Number: LI83 30-P-066810
Switching noise from climate relay

Bulletin Number: LI83.30-P-068109
Condenser leaking

Bulletin Number: SCB-2013070004
MERCEDES: THE ELECTRIC DRIVE BATTERY, IN SOME VEHICLES, FAILS TO MEET EXISTING SPECIFICATIONS AND WILL NEED TO BE CORRECTED BY UPDATING THE ELECTRIC DRIVE BATTERY. MODELS 2013 FORTWO CABRIO, COUPE. *PE

Bulletin Number: SM-B-54
SMART: HIGH-VOLTAGE BATTERY SOFTWARE UPDATE. *JS

Bulletin Number: SMB-54-10-08
SMART: INFORMATION PROVIDED, ON CERTAIN VEHICLES, REGARDING THE HANDLING AND REPLACING OF AN HV BATTERY,ON ELECTRIC VEHICLES. MODELS 451.390/391, 490, 491. NO MODEL YEARS LISTED. *PE UPDATED 3/4/14. *PE

Bulletin Number: SM-B-54.10-09
Preparation for Performing Maintenance Service or Status Check of High-Voltage Battery

https://www.theautochannel.com/db/s...2013-smart-fortwo-passion-coupe&styleid=34280

 

[Yinzer]

Memory is the first to go . . .

So, I have had the mystery 451 Battery Software---2016060002 Updating Battery Control Unit applied to Sparky 3 years ago.

And the key takeaway from that visit to my "vanishing" smart Center - "In true Service Writer fashion, when asked the nature of the update - he had no idea?"

https://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/1388049-post11.html

Yup, but wouldn't the service rep. at least make an effort to find out for the customer what the update was for? One would think that the service rep. could work up the chain - to Stuttgart if necessary, and get an answer.

Have you tried the Smart Car help phone number? I'll try that next week.

 

[Jo e Lefors]

Yup, but wouldn't the service rep. at least make an effort to find out for the customer what the update was for? One would think that the service rep. could work up the chain - to Stuttgart if necessary, and get an answer.

Have you tried the Smart Car help phone number? I'll try that next week.

In a fantasy world yes.
In the real world, it's next owner plz or back to their phone.
Once you walk out the door, you your car and its problem is forgotten about.
Really, your car is important only to you.
The service writer at a MB dealer may see 16 to 25 people in a day X 5 days a week. Trust me your car isn't important enough to waste extra time in a busy day or to take time away from their phone. I see it every day.
Being on the phone takes priority over almost everything.
I'm a realist. Like it or not that's the way it is today.

 

[Yinzer]

Tom and anyone else interested:

Looking up the 2015 ED on the same site, I get this very relevant looking item:

Bulletin Number: LI54.10-P-052655 (Dated May 7, 2018)
smart ed - 12V battery discharged, undervoltage, vehicle not drivable, fault messages concerning electric drive system

So the question now is, how do we obtain the text of this service bulletin?

 

[Yinzer]

That seem to be a rather cynical view. I was not saying that they needed to do this "research" (which should only take a few minutes) for free - they obviously can charge a reasonable amount for the time spent looking the information up...

Edit - mostly never mind. For just $15.00 I added the 2014 Smart ED to my Alldata DIY subscription - which includes the text of all service bulletins. I hadn't done this earlier because Alldata DIY never added the the manual for any 2015 Smarts - but the 2014 is the same car.

But unfortunately, the list only goes to March, 2018 and does not include the all-important May 7, 2018 bulletin listed above. But here is the bulletin for 2016060002:

 

[sokoloff]

Tom and anyone else interested:

Looking up the 2015 ED on the same site, I get this very relevant looking item:

Bulletin Number: LI54.10-P-052655
smart ed - 12V battery discharged, undervoltage, vehicle not drivable, fault messages concerning electric drive system

So the question now is, how do we obtain the text of this service bulletin?

We've got one current Smart car salesman on the forum, Smartcardan, and two former ones, Kamaal and the fellow from Oregon. Maybe they can help?

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,500 miles

 

[Jo e Lefors]

We've got one current Smart car salesman on the forum, Smartcardan, and two former ones, Kamaal and the fellow from Oregon. Maybe they can help?

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,500 miles

Kamaal no longer sells smarts or MB. He left the dealership because of new ownership. April was the last time he signed into the forum. I don't know how much help will be. Good Luck

 

[sokoloff]

A Google search for that bulletin number, LI54.10-P-052655, brings up several references to it. No great details, but it sounds like the complete text of the bulletin is available by signing up for the various services similar to Alldata.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,500 miles

 

[Yinzer]

A Google search for that bulletin number, LI54.10-P-052655, brings up several references to it. No great details, but it sounds like the complete text of the bulletin is available by signing up for the various services similar to Alldata.

Yes, I already have an AlldataDIY (which I notice is now owned by the AutoZone store chain) subscription and added a 2014 451 ED (2015 Smarts are not available) for just $15 - but the most recent bulletin they have for the Smart ED is a March 2018 one. I sent Alldata a request for the most recent bulletin (May 2018) we are interested in. It is really the key clue for solving our "bricking" problem... Or, It might just say: "When this happens, replace the (absurdly expensive) battery."

However, I did finally find a "from the horses mouth" copy pre-battery pack capacity scan discharge/charge procedure. I'd like to post it as a sticky - although the stickies are getting a little cluttered and few here seem to be checking them first. Can you remove that post of mine requesting ED long-term storage experiences from the stickies?

 

[sokoloff]

I just got this info from my local Mercedes dealer. They don't service Smarts, but can pull up the VMI on any VIN. Looks like my cabriolet has had the campaign done, but the coupe has not.

So the question is "Do I take the car in to my closest Smart dealer that's 150 miles and 12 hours away or do I live dangerously?"

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,500 miles

 

[MB DNA]

Looks like my cabriolet has had the campaign done, but the coupe has not.

So the question is "Do I take the car in to my closest Smart dealer that's 150 miles and 12 hours away or do I live dangerously?"

"Live dangerously" - isn't that the smart owner's mantra?

Let's put it this way, Campaign SM-SC-2016060002, July 2016 says that approximately 4,278 vehicles may be affected.

As there were only 5,561 MY13-16 451 ED's built, there is a 77% chance that you may already be a Lottery Winner???

 

[sokoloff]

The service campaign letter implied that any Mercedes dealer could do it. So I asked my local dealer and here is his response.

"No I’m sorry we can not we have never been a smart dealer. With updates if something goes wrong , corrupting a module, I would have no way to fix it…"

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,500 miles

 

[MB DNA]

The service campaign letter implied that any Mercedes dealer could do it. So I asked my local dealer . . .

Any "authorized" Mercedes-Benz dealer would be your "local smart Center."

Some of the STAR clone "Snap-on" style devices may have the capability to do the update BUT, not sure that I'd want to run the risk of doing a rogue software update? Sadly, your not so local (150 miles away) smart Center may soon be closing up shop as the final curtain is about to drop on all things smart . . .

 

[sokoloff]

Jon, 007 and Bruce - if you guys are reading this thread, do you know if your cars have had this service campaign update?

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,500 miles

 

[Yinzer]

Update... AlldataDIY responded and they cannot get the bulletin LI54.10-P-052655. I'll call my MB/Smart service center next. I don't expect any luck with them either.