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Discussion Starter #2
If any of you guys wants to give him US $2,995.00 for his reseveration :eek: here is home phone number you might want to wait until 2:00 AM to call because I'm sure his line will be busy.;) I cut and pasted it for Ebay because I think Ebay will block this sale if you want to call it that.:D

If You Need Further Info Dont Hesitate to contact me, please call 305-591-7797 Office or 305-273-1949 Home (Cesar)
 

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I hope I'm wrong but before the first year is over I think there will be a whole lot of baloney sliced. I blame Penske for most of the baloney because of the crazy system and lack of information they have imposed on this marketplace.
 

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You guys called it some one is trying to sell a there reservation on Ebay. I am sure Ebay will take it down but here the link, what a D*ck.
Glen


http://cgi.ebay.com/Option-To-Buy-2008-Smart-Car-Passion-Fortwo-US-Version_W0QQitemZ250174979685QQihZ015QQcategoryZ102483QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I believe that *Cesarmor*, the seller, forgot to read all of the instructions in the Smart Car Configurator instructions/rules. It stated that ONLY the original reservation holders name would be honored and that any substitutions or transfers from the original would be disqualified as a valid reservation holder.
See.....PAG did keep the plans best interests at heart. :D
The system WAS designed to take care of itself and that's a good thing.
Not to worry, my friends....it will all work out in the end.
 

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jonnysan-

I must disagree- I read the eBay listing and the lister offers to buy the car himself and THEN sell it to the bidder. As I understand the PAG agreement this would not violate it since the reservation holder would actually buy the car from PAG. In any event I think the legalities are not the core of the problem.

What I think the core of the problem is, revolves around the cynical decision of PAG to with hold simple information from the reservation holders which we have a right to have after investing our $99, which, I believe they have calculated, has the effect of artificially raising the demand.

If I am typical, I would be perfectly ok with waiting whatever the time would need to be if I knew I was number ??? on the waiting list and x number of cars are scheduled to come in per month. I could then calculate approximately when I could expect my car.

People become artificially impatient when they have no way of knowing when or if they can expect their Smarts and thereby are tempted to go for these rediculous schemes particularly if they are affluent. While there will always be a small group of people who will WANT WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY WANT IT, and are prepared and able to pay for it (under our economic system this is ok), fostering the greedy schemes, I do think a significant proportion of reservation holders would be fully prepared to wait their turns if they knew what the wait will be, thereby calming the market.

To our PAG apologists on this forum- Would it really be so difficult for PAG to share this SECRET information (albiet with the commonsense proviso that things might not go exactly as planned)? Unfortunately for us I can only conclude PAG sees this situation as in their interest because of the "buzz" it brings them in the media, while scantimoniously maintaining that they are treating the buyers fairly with the reservation system.

By keeping us all intentionally in the dark (unnecessarily in my view) PAG has attempted to induce the same sort of publicity and market frenzy that greeted the first year of the Mini Cooper. While that will "juice" sales in the short run by making the Smart a sort of prize in a contest (particularly to the impressionable), in the long run I think many people will have a real bad taste in their mouths and shun the brand (as I have shunned the Mini) when this baloney proliferates as, given human nature, it is bound to.

Additionally it leaves us uncertain about when to start to sell our current cars privately, how to save up (for the young buyers) for the purchase, dealing with our insurance companies, whether to repair current vehicles to keep them going until they could expect their Smart, and many other practical matters connected with a car purchase. All and all it is pretty cynical and anti consumer behavior by PAG in my opinion and starting to alienate me from this whole cultural crap that is coming along with our simple little cars.

BTW nothing would please me more than to have PAG prove me wrong by revealing the delivery information we SHOULD have (along with warantee terms, cost of delivery and dealer prep, whether dealers will be prevented from gouging us) instead of jerking us around with secret codes etc..
 

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I have sent a copy of this post to the President of Smartcar USA along with the following sentence:

"Do you really think that exercising your current market power this way, given the current and temporary imbalance in the supply and demand situation will really be in the best long term interest of Smart USA?"
 

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Supply and demand rule

I too agree with Lewis.

This car has been doing this to people since day one and smart usa is simple another company that is exploiting the supply and demand rule.

It is what is folks a great lead generator and will get people to the dealers one way or another.

Remember will still live in the U.S.A.
 

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Hi guys,

Please make sure to stay on topic for this thread. I have reported the item to eBay for them to review if the listing is valid.
 

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Gold Pltd Spade Cable Connector

This guy made his stars selling most of this items on ebay.
The car has no intruments packg
 

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smart could take it a step further ...

and have the new owner sign an affidavit that due to the initial limited supply the original revervation holder must take delivery and not resell the car within XX time and if they no longer want the car, the selling dealer has the first option to buy it back (and then the dealer would be bound to sell it again for no more than list price by the mfg) to keep price gouging and speculators away. I seem to recall some other very limited edition car and mfg that tried that but can't seem to find an article ... the U.S. is of course free trade but we've all seen the tactics being used when something with high demand/low supply comes out (i.e., Miata in '89, VW New Beetle in '98, etc.) ... it would be great if they hold to punishing dealers who try to gouge but may be difficult to eliminate any speculating ... I purposely waited a few years on my first Miata because dealers were adding $5K 'market adjustment' pricing (of course just extra profit on top of sticker price) which really turned me off. With Canadian smart owners who frequent this forum perhaps they can let us know if CDN dealers tried this initially when the smart was launched up north ... ?
 

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As a former economics major I can tell you the way to damp speculation is to have an efficient market which requires information. The more complete the information is the less speculation there will be in any market because people are able to make informed decisions!

Why the lack of easily supplied information PAG?

This is why I question the motivation of PAG. Sure I can think of mealey-mouth excuses: i.e. we don't want to dissappoint people etc. but this is baloney- they could add disclaimers galore- the real reason is they want buzz which equals speculation.

Let's also not forget that such speculation leaves "opportunities" for REAL insiders to make some extra $- the car business in general is rife with these "opportunities".
 

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Hi guys,

Please make sure to stay on topic for this thread. I have reported the item to eBay for them to review if the listing is valid.
Absolutely valid. I've seen tons of similar offers for reservations or orders on other high demand vehicles such as the Shelby GT500. What the seller may not understand is that he is the one that must place the order with Smart and that he has to take ownership from the dealer. He may not resell the car under state laws without paying full sales taxes and registration fees first unless he happens to be a licensed auto reseller. If I were him (and as mercenary), I would take delivery first and auction off the actual car. He would get at least $3-5k profit for a January delivery Smart.
 

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and have the new owner sign an affidavit that due to the initial limited supply the original revervation holder must take delivery and not resell the car within XX time and if they no longer want the car, the selling dealer has the first option to buy it back ?
That flies in the face of the concept of ownership. Those types of terms and conditions could only be enacted under a lease.
 

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As a former economics major I can tell you the way to damp speculation is to have an efficient market which requires information. The more complete the information is the less speculation there will be in any market because people are able to make informed decisions!

Why the lack of easily supplied information PAG?

This is why I question the motivation of PAG. Sure I can think of mealey-mouth excuses: i.e. we don't want to dissappoint people etc. but this is baloney- they could add disclaimers galore- the real reason is they want buzz which equals speculation.

Let's also not forget that such speculation leaves "opportunities" for REAL insiders to make some extra $- the car business in general is rife with these "opportunities".

True, there will be less speculation, but in a perfect market the price of all of the Smarts would go up substantially to more accurately reflect the supply/demand curve. Low supply + high demand = high price. Hence we would be certain that profitability to the manufacturer (and cost to us) would be maximized.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Apparently this yokel order two one week after the other with the idea of selling one of them.
He is trying to get you to give him money for a car that probably hasn
 

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Found the article, affidavit was voluntary ... Audi R8

Didn't just apply to a leased car ...

Audi dealers ask for first right of refusal on used R8 sales
Audi dealers hope to keep R8 buyers from selling the cars at inflated prices since demand will be so high.
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By DIANA T. KURYLKO | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

Audi of America Inc. wants to stop speculators from buying the R8, its first premium sports car, and flipping it for profit.

So it's copying a Ferrari practice: Dealers will ask would-be buyers to sign an affidavit stating that they will give the dealer first crack at buying back the R8 if they sell it. Signing the affidavit is voluntary.

Among other benefits, Audi's plan could provide dealers with some used R8s, which likely will be in short supply.

"This way we can better control the second life cycle of the car," says Marc Trahan, director of product quality and technical service. "It is such a rare and exotic car, and this protects the customers. And it will be good for the car's residual values."

The R8 goes on sale in the United States in September. Pricing starts at $110,000 for the six-speed manual and rises to $119,000 for the six-speed automatic. Both prices include shipping. The R8 has a 420-hp, 4.2-liter V-8 engine.

300 cars a year

The U.S. market will get only 300 R8s this year - 100 more than initially planned, because of demand, says Trahan.

"Dealers say they could sell many more, but we want to keep the car more exclusive," he says.

Trahan admits that Audi can do nothing to keep dealers from marking up the R8 except "strongly recommend" they don't.

The R8 will be sold by only 109 of Audi's 267 dealers. R8 dealers have agreed to devote at least 400 square feet of showroom space, train five employees and invest up to $40,000 for tools and marketing, says Trahan. All dealers were offered the opportunity to sell the R8, he says.

Allocation will be based on dealers' annual sales, says Trahan. An additional 58 dealers who dedicate one technician will be able to service R8s.

Audi will provide dealers with the affidavits for the resale agreement, which will be presented at the time of sale. The program was discussed with the Audi dealer council, which approved it.

Cars for 'end-users'

Joel Weinberger, owner of Continental Audi, of Naperville, Ill., and chairman of the dealer council, says the affidavit was prompted by "our concern about having the cars get into the hands of people who aren't the end-users."

"When you have a car more in demand than supply, you have people who are speculators and try to operate as dealers without a license," Weinberger says. "They buy a car, sell it and can make more profit than we did the first time around."

Weinberger, who has several orders for the R8 but doesn't yet know his allocation, says he will use the forms at his store.

What if a customer says no?

"Dealers have to manage the situation," Weinberger says. "I don't see why it would be a negative unless the buyer is one of those folks who want to flip it and make a profit right away."

A spokesman for Ferrari North America confirmed that the exotic brand makes "a strong recommendation" that its dealers make buyers sign a first-right-of-refusal affidavit. He would not say how many dealers comply.



This article was last updated on: 05/07/07, 13:19 et
 

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lhoboy- I respectfully disagree- there are many alternatives to the smart car- prius for mileage, fit and yaris for size, aveo for price etc. that would keep the price under control.

In my circle of friends and acquaintances there are few folks that share our passion for the smartcar. Early adaptors (who are willing to pay extra) dry up pretty fast- usually in a year in the auto world. That is why it generally does NOT pay for manufacturers to gouge the early buyers.

In fact many people I have told about my reservation of the smartcar have told me not to expect them to ride in it as they feel it's unsafe. We 20 or so posters in this board are in no way representative of the public at large IMO.
 

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Usually true but sometimes longer ...

some cars have lasting sales appeal, i.e., most MINI's are holding their resale value quite well, several years since new but you're correct in now they don't go for more than list, I'm not sure how long the over list mark-up lasted (but try to get a decent discount even today!). I bought one of the first VW New Beetle's in early '98 (a TDI diesel, dealer got it by accident and then had a bit of trouble selling it back then). Even with close to 50K miles and 8 years old I was able to get a very good price as compared to say a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic of similar age and price when new!
 
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