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Discussion Starter #1
My Buddy just bought a used 2014 Smart ED about 10 months ago and the Dealer he bought he bought it from is saying your car is clear but I called MBFS and they say Battery Assurance plus is active on this VIN number the person at MBFS says they will go after the original buyer of the Smart ED and take them to small claims court for the 5,010.00 . He didn't say if my buddy drives off into the sunset or not without paying anything . The dealer never disclosed this Battery Assurance Plus thing I figured it out when I wanted a Smart ED . So now I went back to the dealer and now the Smart ED I wanted to buy is on a hold possibly because MBFS found out this dealer is not disclosing about BAP . Will keep people informed here what happens in the long run . To all who are reading this if you see a Smart ED for 5999.00 like I did please run the Vehicle ID Number or VIN with MercedeS Benz Financial Services . I have run 3 VIN numbers all say BAP is active .So the cost of this car is not the advertised 5999.00 just add another 5 k to the price Some of these dealers do not know what they are doing in regards to this particular car .
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
,My friend bought a 2014 Smart ED for 9,800 with 7,800 miles about 10 months ago . I liked his Smart so much that i wanted to buy one I found a 2013 Smart ED for 5,999.00 in Southern Ca seems like a great deal 5,999.00 for a electric car in doing research online I heard of this BAP and got curious about it as it stated that most of these owners opted to lease the battery than buy 90% of Smart ED are sold with BAP so I read online to call MBFS to verify if it has an active BAP on it by the VIN Vehicle Id Number and the MBFS rep said there is an active BAP on this ViN he says you are required to pay 80.00 a month for the next 7 years or pay 5,010.00 for the battery and the battery is property of MBFS .At that point I was thinking no way am I gonna buy this car but I got curious and ran my buddys Vin on his 2014 Smart ED and sure enough his has an active BAP but in the last 10 months nobody has paid it and the used car dealer has no clue to whats going on he keeps saying it is clear but MBFS says otherwise he wasn't told he needed BAP and has just paid his car payment for 10 months .The dealer did not disclose this 80.00 a month extra payment or having to pay 5k for a battery . I ran a total of 3 different VIN numbers and all 3 had BAP on them . He has got no letter from MBFS or anything asking for payment . any Ideas on why MBFS is letting these dealers sell the lease returns and not explaining to buyers about this battery and the BAP ? Thanks Al
 

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I have always warned people about this situation when they are looking at my car with an interest in buying one. Having said that I have never heard of a situation where Mercedes actually does anything like remotely disable the car (which I understand they can do)

I'll be watching this thread. Interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well my buddy is worried about it now and he is 75 years old and I feel bad about what's going on . We went to a few dealers not Smart because the nearest one is about 260 mile round trip none of these know anything .We will try to call Smart center SF on monday to see if they have any idea on a recourse to this problem. He can't afford the extra 80.00 a month or 5k to purchase a battery he is scared they are gonna take the battery out and leave him with a Glider since I don't think they can take the whole car because it is financed through Chase and those paymets are up to date . We will also contact Chase to see what they have to say also .
 

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Was it purchased through a smart center? Or was it purchased at a random used car dealership? If it was purchased at a smart center, they should have informed your friend and it's their fault they didn't...and they should now eat that cost.

If (and it sounds like the case here) your friend got it from a random used car dealership, they most likely bought the car off-lease and didn't really care about BAP, just wanted to turn a quick buck. In this case, MBFS needs to go after the previous owner or the dealership. Your friend shouldn't be on the hook for something he could have no idea about.
 

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Ideas on why MBFS is letting these dealers sell the lease returns and not explaining to buyers about this battery and the BAP ?

I'm note sure that these are lease returns. If it was an auctioned-off lease return, then I presume the previous owner would be the used car dealer, then Mercedes Benz Finance, then the original MB/Smart dealer.

A check on Carfax will reveal the chain of custody. Larger used car dealers usually provide Carfax reports free to prospective buyers on their web sites.
 

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There are some original buyers/sellers out there knowing FULL AND WELL that they are on the hook for BAP. They signed all those pages for the battery contract, and they received a reduced MSRP that was $5,010 lower than non-BAP electric vehicles. For example, if somebody wanted a $25,750 MSRP car, if they prefer the BAP battery lease for extended protection and some assistance with maintenance costs then the revised MSRP becomes $20,740, plus an $80/month agreement. Any original owner who turns around and sells the car is supposed to notify the buyer about the lease agreement as well as notify MBFS about the ownership change to make sure the next owner qualifies (credit wise) to make the $80/month payment.

And before anybody turns around and gets upset, hey, they paid $5,010 LESS than non-BAP folks, and they also received additional "assurance" that the battery performance would be maintained/guaranteed at a reasonable standard for a period of 10 years and unlimited miles while also having REDUCED maintenance costs.

It's like some folks buying an electric car in California, getting a $2,500 rebate, then not keeping up with the requirements of obtaining the $2,500 rebate (keeping the car for a minimum of 30 months, as one example).

There are some others, perhaps at auctions or from used car lots, who genuinely may not have been aware of the BAP because the seller/dealer goofed, the seller didn't know, etc,. And for those folks, I'm sorry because that just plain old sucks.
 

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Ideas on why MBFS is letting these dealers sell the lease returns and not explaining to buyers about this battery and the BAP ?
There is no conspiracy here just confusion in a marketplace that is VIN# driven. Carfax will not show if the battery pack is owned or rented.

When the off-lease ED goes to auction it is just another VIN# and MOST non-MB resales are being conducted by dealers who know nothing about ED or BAP. They buy the ED sled + pack "complete" mark it up and sell it often at ridiculous prices as they aren't covering the $5,100 gap nor the $80 per month rent.

Not sure who (MBFS?) is dropping the ball but I have not heard of anyone having Guido appear on their doorstep to take the pack and leave them the sled?

When in doubt and you are tempted to buy that $5,000 MY13 ED - give MBFS a call with the VIN# as they will check it for you.
 

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I can confirm DNA's comment, the used one I bought and returned a month later had nothing about the battery on the carfax.
You might have read in earlier posts that I went through this entire exercise as well a few months back. The big used car "auction house reseller" certainly signed the docs at auction indicating there's a battery lease, but it's so rare, I am sure it got lost in the shuffle, they were more than apologetic and went out of their way to return the car and make a full refund. I think they were worried about getting sued actually. There's just so much room for missing information about the battery lease when you're not dealing with a smart center.

In the end after rebates, the brand new 2014 car including owning the battery outright was a grand cheaper than the used one, even without the battery lease cost.

Guido might not show up, but I imagine a registered letter from an MB attorney will, if you don't pay up. :)
 

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Guido might not show up, but I imagine a registered letter from an MB attorney will, if you don't pay up. :)
And somewhere in M-B Land (Atlanta, GA) there is a building with at least one floor of attorneys - they can and will outlast you and yours . . .

Oddly, the new owner should NOT be their target but rather the seller who bought it at auction FROM M-B Financial Services and may or may not have acknowledged the BAP requirements?

Recourse as cornwallav8r suggests - take it back to THE SELLER for lack of full disclosure. Could put you in a great spot to negotiate out of the BAP at a significant discount with the seller paying the difference?
 

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I can confirm DNA's comment, the used one I bought and returned a month later had nothing about the battery on the Carfax.
I didn't imply that Carfax would have informaiton about the BAP, just the past owners who may still be responsible for the BAP.
 

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Whatever happens, it will be interesting to see who is actually legally responsible - by a court decision, not by speculation here - for paying the BAP fee.
 

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Whatever happens, it will be interesting to see who is actually legally responsible - by a court decision, not by speculation here - for paying the BAP fee.
Without speculation there would be no SCoA? :shrug:

Most of us will be well beyond ED ownership before (if ever?) this question will be answered in a court of law.
 

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WHen an electric smart is leased, 99% ( I suspect) came with BAP. If they did not, the lease would have been much, much more expensive.

After the lease is returned, MB auctions off the cars to either MB/smart dealers or small used car dealers. At the auctions, Mercedes makes it clear that BAP must be continued/purchased with the vehicle. (MB offers to pay for 2 months of BAP if an MB/smart dealer buys the EV smart from the auction.) The dealer is responsible for paying BAP while it is on their lot beyond that, and then when it is sold the final customer assumes the BAP payments. Dealers should make that clear to their customers. Its possible that the used car dealers don't know what they are agreeing to when they buy a smart ED car at auction and told that it includes BAP. Thats on them to know what they are agreeing to when they sign for the vehicle.

The customer is supposed to register the car with MB/smart (call MBenz Financial Services) to pay the BAP payments and keep the warranty active. If they miss BAP payments, I believe it could do to debt collector. If they don't pay for the warranty, then I don't image the car/battery would be covered by warranty if anything went wrong.

If a customer/dealer doesn't want to pay BAP for the remaining 7 years after a lease, they would pay back the original $5,010 discount that was given when the lease customer chose BAP.
 

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Exactly how it was explained to me by MB Leasing. But therein lies the rub. If the used car dealer set it in writing there is no lease for the battery (or left it out completely, even), can MB still somehow come after the end owner who registered the vehicle in their name unknowingly?
The lease person told me they have an active list of VINS, they watch out constantly for, to catch them when they get finally registered. They didn't say anything about charging dealers in between.
No doubt, they'd forego the battery warranty in such a case. I suspect that would be the only cost though, short of attorney fees.
 

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There are some original buyers/sellers out there knowing FULL AND WELL that they are on the hook for BAP. They signed all those pages for the battery contract, and they received a reduced MSRP that was $5,010 lower than non-BAP electric vehicles. For example, if somebody wanted a $25,750 MSRP car, if they prefer the BAP battery lease for extended protection and some assistance with maintenance costs then the revised MSRP becomes $20,740, plus an $80/month agreement. Any original owner who turns around and sells the car is supposed to notify the buyer about the lease agreement as well as notify MBFS about the ownership change to make sure the next owner qualifies (credit wise) to make the $80/month payment.

And before anybody turns around and gets upset, hey, they paid $5,010 LESS than non-BAP folks, and they also received additional "assurance" that the battery performance would be maintained/guaranteed at a reasonable standard for a period of 10 years and unlimited miles while also having REDUCED maintenance costs.

It's like some folks buying an electric car in California, getting a $2,500 rebate, then not keeping up with the requirements of obtaining the $2,500 rebate (keeping the car for a minimum of 30 months, as one example).

There are some others, perhaps at auctions or from used car lots, who genuinely may not have been aware of the BAP because the seller/dealer goofed, the seller didn't know, etc,. And for those folks, I'm sorry because that just plain old sucks.
People may have saved $5010 by choosing the BAP when they bought the car , BUT spending $80 a month over a 10 year period comes to $9600. I don't think most people would keep a car like this for 10 years so where's the savings???:shrug:
 

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People may have saved $5010 by choosing the BAP when they bought the car , BUT spending $80 a month over a 10 year period comes to $9600. I don't think most people would keep a car like this for 10 years so where's the savings???:shrug:
And over 36 months $2,880 of the $5,010 "saved" has been paid out in rent.

Most who leased ED opted for the BAP rent/service/warranty program because of the unknowns of battery life and the simple fact that it dramatically lowered their monthly lease payment as they learned the benefits and pitfalls of owning their first EV.
 

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People may have saved $5010 by choosing the BAP when they bought the car , BUT spending $80 a month over a 10 year period comes to $9600. I don't think most people would keep a car like this for 10 years so where's the savings???:shrug:
$4600 extra for BAP over 10 years is a lot less than the cost of a new battery pack if the first one doesn't make it. That's the savings!

At least for those of us who do plan to keep it for 10 years!
 
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