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Discussion Starter #1
I would like to join the “All fours club” but I’m not sure if this setup will work out?

Will a P-195/50 R15 on a 15 x 6.5 wheel with a 34.5 mm offset fit the front of my 2015 Passion?
I’m currently running P-165/60 R15 on the front with P-195/50 R15 on the rear.

I have looked through the posts and have come across many owners who have larger 17 inch wheels with what seems like wider tires and have not had many issues with tire rubbing, but I would much rather not assume mine being smaller would provide for more clearance.

Thank you for your help
PAULA
 

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Paula, I am running these, Genius Darwin wheels...15" x 6.5" all four with General Altimax 185/55 R15's. I get a little rub during tight turning, but overall , I am liking the feel. I also have the zero camber mod on the rears. If I could find a front only 1-2" lift for the front, I would be really happy!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Paula, I am running these, Genius Darwin wheels...15" x 6.5" all four with General Altimax 185/55 R15's. I get a little rub during tight turning, but overall , I am liking the feel. I also have the zero camber mod on the rears. If I could find a front only 1-2" lift for the front, I would be really happy!
I really appreciate your input, regarding your setup and how it could possibly compare to what I’m looking to accomplish.
When you mention you like the feel, are you seeing an improvement in tracking straight when you’re at highway speeds? Also has there been an improvement in wet driving/ cornering?
conditions?
That second number /55 is the aspect ratio which is width as well as height. Is a /55 a taller tire than a 50?
How did you perform the zero camber mod?
Would you know where you’re rubbing and if a wheel spacer would help eliminate that?
I apologize for all the questions, but please know it truly helps me understand and helps make a good decision.
 

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I am running 17"x7.5" wheels on all four corners with Hankook 215/35-17 tires. I also have 20mm front and 30mm rear wheel spacers. I did not need the wheel spacers for clearance, but I wanted to move the tire/wheel further to the edge of the fender. I kinda like the flush look. A 55 spec tire is taller than a 50 spec, approx. 5mm.

As to the zero camber mod, search for the thread on rear wedgies. A few years ago, a member BMS(Barney's Machine Shop) made up a kit to eliminate the rear camber. Some high mile drivers liked it because of less rear tire wear. He no longer makes the kit, but some members have substituted washers for the wedge kit. It is a fairly simple mod to do, but I am still happy with my car's handling. As far as all four the same size, you can now rotate the tires, get better straight line tracking, not as much tramlining, and a better over all handling car. Plus, I just think it looks cooler. Good luck with whatever you decide. Here is a photo of my current setup.
62471
 

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I agree with all 1983 says, the car does handle better. I forgot to mention I also have the front spacers, 20mm, almost an inch, and that is probably the slight rubbing. But it seems to be going away. Should have included pics the first time....
Camber mod was with washers, took only a couple of hours... lots of info and the job here and on evolution. I like the look also.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am running 17"x7.5" wheels on all four corners with Hankook 215/35-17 tires. I also have 20mm front and 30mm rear wheel spacers. I did not need the wheel spacers for clearance, but I wanted to move the tire/wheel further to the edge of the fender. I kinda like the flush look. A 55 spec tire is taller than a 50 spec, approx. 5mm.

As to the zero camber mod, search for the thread on rear wedgies. A few years ago, a member BMS(Barney's Machine Shop) made up a kit to eliminate the rear camber. Some high mile drivers liked it because of less rear tire wear. He no longer makes the kit, but some members have substituted washers for the wedge kit. It is a fairly simple mod to do, but I am still happy with my car's handling. As far as all four the same size, you can now rotate the tires, get better straight line tracking, not as much tramlining, and a better over all handling car. Plus, I just think it looks cooler. Good luck with whatever you decide. Here is a photo of my current setup.
View attachment 62471
I found some good treads on wedgies which I’ll study. I’m currently at 32k miles and have not experienced any funky rear tire wear, so I’m thinking that’s a project I can hold off on.
Comparing your set up with what I’m considering when you crunch the numbers as far as comparing tire size yours 215/35-17 which although shorter by approximately 15 mm are wider then what I’m running which is a 195/50-15. Taking the wheels into consideration at 15 mine are shorter than your 17.
So in retrospect your running a wheel/tire combination taller and wider with a wheel that is 1 inch wider at 7.5 and it’s working for you with the added benefits of better control which has always been an issue with mine at highway speeds, or cornering with the scrawny 165/60 on the front. And to top the climax your baby is beautiful (thank you for posting pictures)
Smart madness has the offsets, so I’ll purchase those, move on to purchasing the wheels, a new set of TPMS which I needed to replace.
As always I appreciate your advice and time dedicated to help me as well as the community of owners.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree with all 1983 says, the car does handle better. I forgot to mention I also have the front spacers, 20mm, almost an inch, and that is probably the slight rubbing. But it seems to be going away. Should have included pics the first time....
Camber mod was with washers, took only a couple of hours... lots of info and the job here and on evolution. I like the look also.
Your setup makes a world of difference, she has a nice stance to her. This is what Im trying to achieve with the added benefit of good handling characteristics.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and include pictures of your beautiful ride, know your time in responding is appreciated.
 

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Paula, I wanted to mention, if you decide on wheel spacers, I have a suggestion. I have done a lot of research, and have found the Eibach brand to be the best in my opinion. They are TUV certified (a German safety company). Kind of like FDA for food and drugs and SNELL for racing safety equipment. They are not the cheapest, but I don't think you would want to scrimp when it comes to your wheels falling off. The best prices I have found for Eibach is "Auto Anything.com". They also have lowering springs for smarts. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Paula, I wanted to mention, if you decide on wheel spacers, I have a suggestion. I have done a lot of research, and have found the Eibach brand to be the best in my opinion. They are TUV certified (a German safety company). Kind of like FDA for food and drugs and SNELL for racing safety equipment. They are not the cheapest, but I don't think you would want to scrimp when it comes to your wheels falling off. The best prices I have found for Eibach is "Auto Anything.com". They also have lowering springs for smarts. Good luck.
Good morning,
I’m so happy you chimed in about this, probably the most important part in this project. One can’t put a price on safety predominantly others safety as well as ours. The last thing we would want is to have a wheel come off at highway speed. Since deciding on the need to install wheel spacers I have confirmed that all are not created alike. Things like hub centric/ wheel centric truly matter as well as machined billets verses cast models. Also material thickness left around the holes where the spacer is bolted to the hub. The inexpensive spacers are miles apart from higher end spacers just by looking at them.
I when to Anythingauto.com found Eibach spacers but unfortunately they are listed for earlier years, not for my 2015. I then went to Eibach website and tried a search there with no results showing for our year. I’m guessing “which could be dangerous” that all years smart used the same hub / hub centric pattern, but Eibach only has it confirmed up until 2009. Im going to shot them a question regarding our year 2015 and see if the get back to me (Ich sende die Frage auf Deutsch, falls erforderlich, um sie zu erhalten und zu beantworten) “ I will send it in German if need be to receive an answer”
While on anything auto I did find a set year specific manufactured by a company H&R TRAC that were vehicle specific to my year. They are 25 mm front hub specific. They seem to have a good review rating, price was $142.00 per set. I’m going to continue to research this and would much rather prefer what you are running because of the first hand results having them installed, plus your research into spacers means a lot as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Good morning,
I’m so happy you chimed in about this, probably the most important part in this project. One can’t put a price on safety predominantly others safety as well as ours. The last thing we would want is to have a wheel come off at highway speed. Since deciding on the need to install wheel spacers I have confirmed that all are not created alike. Things like hub centric/ wheel centric truly matter as well as machined billets verses cast models. Also material thickness left around the holes where the spacer is bolted to the hub. The inexpensive spacers are miles apart from higher end spacers just by looking at them.
I when to Anythingauto.com found Eibach spacers but unfortunately they are listed for earlier years, not for my 2015. I then went to Eibach website and tried a search there with no results showing for our year. I’m guessing “which could be dangerous” that all years smart used the same hub / hub centric pattern, but Eibach only has it confirmed up until 2009. Im going to shot them a question regarding our year 2015 and see if the get back to me (Ich sende die Frage auf Deutsch, falls erforderlich, um sie zu erhalten und zu beantworten) “ I will send it in German if need be to receive an answer”
While on anything auto I did find a set year specific manufactured by a company H&R TRAC that were vehicle specific to my year. They are 25 mm front hub specific. They seem to have a good review rating, price was $142.00 per set. I’m going to continue to research this and would much rather prefer what you are running because of the first hand results having them installed, plus your research into spacers means a lot as well.
BTW not to change the subject, You provided a good source for my front caliper dilemma, as I was looking at your pictures and see your Red calipers. They are a little pricy but unlike the inexpensive ones made out of plastic found on EBAY anythingauto has the Aluminum covers. Thank you I’m grateful.
 

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Paula, your 2015 is a 451 and has the same wheel hubs as the earlier 451 cars. The Eibach spacers listed will work fine on your car. You do have three lug wheels, right? Same wheel spacers.
As to the caliper covers. Mine are the cheap plastic ones from E Bay. They came from China and were about $16.00 for four covers. The thing I like about mine are the raised letters. Most just have the flat letters printed on or even a decal. You will need at least a 16" diameter wheel for proper clearance. I had to do a very little bit of trimming on mine to get the fit I wanted, but it was very easy and only took a few minutes. They are secured with a few drops of silicone glue on the stock caliper. No issues in about six years. So far, so good. I used pliable silicone so I can easily remove them when brake repair is needed. I have taken them off once and they came off very easily.
Many wheels spacers are really nothing more than large washers. Smarts are hub centric and that what you want in a wheel spacer. My front 20mm spacers came with longer bolts. My rear 30mm spacers came with longer bolts to bolt the spacer to the rear drum and then stock wheel bolts bolted the wheel on. Good luck with your mods. I am looking forward to seeing pics as the progress continues. Thanks, George Oller.
 

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Paula, one other quick thought. Whatever wheel spacer you buy, make sure the bolts are included. A lot of companies leave the bolt purchase up to the customer. When they are included, like Eibach, they will be the right length, right thread, and most important, Grade 8 quality.
 

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Another thought - you won't need spacers at all with the proper wheel and offset(s).
Four spacers with the longer bolts is $2-300.

I picked up '451' Brabus copy wheels for my 450 for $800 that would need no spacers on a 451.



On a 450, the rear wheels needed a 1.25" spacer, but the fronts were perfect.

The wheel spec is 16x5.5 ET +30 Front, 17x7 ET +33 Rear.
The tires are staggered sizes so you wouldn't be able to rotate them but that's not the point of the staggering.
The staggering was 'designed' in to pass the Elk Test, which the Smart failed until they made the staggered sized wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Paula, your 2015 is a 451 and has the same wheel hubs as the earlier 451 cars. The Eibach spacers listed will work fine on your car. You do have three lug wheels, right? Same wheel spacers.
As to the caliper covers. Mine are the cheap plastic ones from E Bay. They came from China and were about $16.00 for four covers. The thing I like about mine are the raised letters. Most just have the flat letters printed on or even a decal. You will need at least a 16" diameter wheel for proper clearance. I had to do a very little bit of trimming on mine to get the fit I wanted, but it was very easy and only took a few minutes. They are secured with a few drops of silicone glue on the stock caliper. No issues in about six years. So far, so good. I used pliable silicone so I can easily remove them when brake repair is needed. I have taken them off once and they came off very easily.
Many wheels spacers are really nothing more than large washers. Smarts are hub centric and that what you want in a wheel spacer. My front 20mm spacers came with longer bolts. My rear 30mm spacers came with longer bolts to bolt the spacer to the rear drum and then stock wheel bolts bolted the wheel on. Good luck with your mods. I am looking forward to seeing pics as the progress continues. Thanks, George Oller.
George, good morning
Thank you for confirming the size on the spacers. I also searched around quite a bit and found your information correct regarding spacer size.
I ordered my wheels from a company called Originalwheels.com. I like the six spoke wheels Im currently running so I ordered a rear set at 15 x 6.5 with a 34.5 mm backset. I decided on keeping the original front Wheels in storage just in case I run into issues with the yearly inspection we have up here in the North East. This way if need be I can replace the fronts with the originals, then swap the big guys back on. It’s something I have to look into regarding installing spacers and the yearly inspection. Maybe someone from New York will chime in regarding this.
You could have fooled me regarding the caliper covers, they look terrific and do serve to keep the wheels cleaner. I would have never guessed they were the inexpensive ones. If what you say is true, I’m going to have to pass on them with the 15s Im installing.
I can’t thank you enough for all your help with getting me set up, it’s appreciated.
Have a wonderful safe weekend.
A little side note, PS The “Ch” is gone and Hopefully will be mounting the new front Emblem this weekend if the weather cooperates.
Pictures to follow....
PAULA
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Another thought - you won't need spacers at all with the proper wheel and offset(s).
Four spacers with the longer bolts is $2-300.

I picked up '451' Brabus copy wheels for my 450 for $800 that would need no spacers on a 451.



On a 450, the rear wheels needed a 1.25" spacer, but the fronts were perfect.

The wheel spec is 16x5.5 ET +30 Front, 17x7 ET +33 Rear.
The tires are staggered sizes so you wouldn't be able to rotate them but that's not the point of the staggering.
The staggering was 'designed' in to pass the Elk Test, which the Smart failed until they made the staggered sized wheels.
Firstly what a beautiful baby you have there. To include a picture of your ride means the world to me. It give me hope that what I’m trying to accomplish is doable.
I haven’t decided on the size of spacers or if I need them at all. I was going to swap out a rear tire with a front and see what clearance issues if any are present. I did order my wheels this morning so one part of the project is complete.
Your baby appears to have a good deal of clearance at the fender openings.
After reading your comment regarding the Elk test I did a google search and found a great deal of information regarding what’s also referred to as the Moose test. Very interesting reading this information of which I couldn’t imagine existed. Thank you for the lead on it and also for your time and dedication to helping others. Know in you heart it’s greatly appreciated.
Have a beautiful safe weekend.
Warmest regard,
Paula
 

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Thank you for the kind words on the 450 guys.
The one in the picture I'm trying to keep stock as not only is it a first gen but it's one of the rare electric sunroof smarts, and was converted by G&K for importation to the US.
I learned a lot getting this car plated in Colorado.

Being a 450, it's treated as a 'grey market' car and has to be approved by a state inspection (Think engine swapped and kit cars).
The state inspector had to look up the stock exhaust/catalytic converter to make sure it was on some Approved DOT list.
Luckily, the car still had this approved exhaust and I swapped it to a second 450 so it can be plated too :)

The end result of visiting the state inspector is to be approved for the 'standing' OBD2 Emissions Test.
The car doesn't go on the rollers; the emissions testing facility just plugs into the OBD2 port and does the test.
The first time the emissions tester did put it on the rollers and found that he could not do that test because the RWD traction control kicked in and he couldn't accelerate to the MPH needed. So I was forced to visit the State Inspector at this point.

Now with the State Inspectors blessing, I can do whatever I want to the car because the standing OBD2 test only uses the data on the Canbus ? So now the car has a catless exhaust with an O2 sensor 'fix'.

My project this year is to double the HP on my other 450, and still be street legal.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
My project this year is to double the HP on my other 450, and still be street legal.
[/QUOTE]

Drop a Hayabusa turbo in her, but keep everything else stock, make her a sleeper and blow away anything that crosses your path lol.
Trying to talk my hubby into buying another smart, so far it’s 50/50.
 
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