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Discussion Starter #1
Two weeks ago a car wash I’ve been using for six years with three models malfunctioned.

The end garage door did not see the car and came down on the glass, cracking it with an L shape crack starting at the middle slowly moving each day to the left or driver’s side.

The downward force kept a brake tap from going over a yellow roller which would have instantly shut it down.

It held the Smart Car down in place and kept downward force on the apex of the roof with initially a skunk stripe, now two weeks later, it had ripped the fabric on the roof with two slices front to back.

Each night with a little moisture there are individual shapes, rectangular, hexanganal, triangular, and all geometric shapes which clearly show up overlapping each other.

Watching video tube crushing tests Insurance Institute for Highway Safety tested the roof which is an intergral part of the tridion system ranked number 1 in roll over crush tests at 9000 pounds of pressure against the driver’s side and gave in five inches allowing the driver from being crushed. The worst of the six was the Chevy Avira.

My question, since the window will give at any moment and the roof has been compromised as far as structural strength, not at an angle by straight down force. How serious has the structural tridion cell been damages.

There has also been structural damage on the passenger side frame which has weakened the structure of the battery housing.

Mercedes had deemed these critical problems as “operational” going to the top level.

Any advice. The front windshield is cracked and will either slice but surely fold in at the weakest point causing a possible guilotine effect and a headless driver.

The car wash took responsibility and I have a video pulse narration fo the accident by the manager.

Feet are dragging. From the last job the Mercedes Benz 6 milllion dollar body shop did when I brushed a cone, it was notably “piss poor” work on the damaged frame not even touched by the MB Shop in the NY, NJ area.

Mercedes would not total the car and there might be lithium fluid leaking into water on wet days.
 

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I read this a few times and I'm not 100% sure what happened, so feel free to correct me here.

The polycarbonate portion of the roof isn't structural. It's just held on with glue and generally will bend or break in any sort of rollover. The actual safety of the roof comes from the high tensile steel of the tridion safety cell. If the 453 is built like the 451, the high tensile steel is actually underneath the metal you see on the outside, with the outer layer acting like a skin. If it's just a dent or deep scratch, you should be fine.

Windscreens are designed to spider web instead of breaking into large chunks. I suppose one can guillotine if it's horribly damaged, but I'm sure the 453's windscreen doesn't sit in a position to allow that to happen? I'm not sure. Do you have any pics of the damage?

My advice would be to demand a loaner car and try putting some fire under them. It sounds like your car technically isn't legal to drive right now and I would point that out to them.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I read this a few times and I'm not 100% sure what happened, so feel free to correct me here.

The polycarbonate portion of the roof isn't structural. It's just held on with glue and generally will bend or break in any sort of rollover. The actual safety of the roof comes from the high tensile steel of the tridion safety cell. If the 453 is built like the 451, the high tensile steel is actually underneath the metal you see on the outside, with the outer layer acting like a skin. If it's just a dent or deep scratch, you should be fine.

Unless the cut to the windscreen went straight through, I don't think you will have to worry about any guillotine effects. Windscreens are designed to spider web instead of breaking into large chunks.

My advice would be to demand a loaner car and try putting some fire under them. It sounds like your car technically isn't legal to drive right now and I would point that out to them.
Hi Miss Mercedes, Thank you. It gets a little worse each day. The stripes are now showing and they cut into the fabric. It did go straight through at the L but I could not feel any air at 65.

It grew a half inch last night. There were many more hits than I could see in the weird lighting this time of year. It looks like it made several faster than I could see hits on the window.

Plus, I’m finding artifacts from the MB six million dollar collision center from last year, which was has bondo underneath one of the badges, the only badge, I’m sorry. They didn’t put on the second one.

I still hold to my theory that it either fell off the flatbed or was in a tertiary accident while in the lot. That happened to me with a brand new gold RX-7 once.

I watched a vid from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety on you tube. It tested six cars. Smart was number one at 9000#’s of sideways / roof and driver door push down, it gave 5 inches which was way more to survive a fatal roll over.

Chevy Avira was sixth which looked non survivable. It gave 15 inches in a low cabin. The range was from good to poor. Smart was the only to receive good.

I loved the cutaway you sent. Your pic shows the whole story. Thank you. How does Smart make up for the convertible with nothing up there. That was kind of a mystery.

Each evening there are all sorts of geometric shapes that don’t intersect showing in the frost on the window. I know that glass although not a living thing has a memory. It can take a 100 hard hits then a gentle put down on a table, it explodes.

The glass has all the worst and best symptoms. The glass is fractured through all layers in several places along the top side. It is the worst case scenario. This is the second glass accident I’ve been in.

Same tight sports type design, with just enough give. The glass for the Honda CRX I was in, didn’t shatter. All those harmless balls didn’t appear.

I had to pick glass shards out of my body for two weeks. The last one was about a half inch maybe a bit more that forced itself out of my thumb. It came straight out of the middle of my thumb. That was the end of it. I had someone cut an acrylic sheet to cover the inside of the window so I didn’t get anymore shards or worse, total failure.

Kind of a waste of money because the stupid car burned up some weeks later. I was just a matter of 1000$ for a new one. It looked worse than last week’s ice fishing Tesla.

The L shape all the way through. I doubt if it will fall into those tiny little harmless balls.

There is a little known fact in Geico’s chain of custody rule book. Only because my friend said to call them now, did I find out about it.

Had I not reported it to Geico, all bets were off. I have a zero deductible on all parts of the insurance except NYS mandatory 50$ deductible on collision.

Geico gets ticked when you don’t use their body shop and it cost me 3600$ in things they wouldn’t pay, two bad adjusters, liars, thieves, giving their word and taking it back. Does anybody see those lithium accidents. I watch them.to try and scare myself you have .01 to 0.9 seconds to get out of the car. The guys who ok’d that amount of damage as not requiring fixing, who ok’d frame damage around a lithium battery, I have no feelings for.

Wow. How could mbManhattan be in business. How could MB Collision Center in NJ be in business. I am now finding little holes in tridion posts, like it was used for .22 target practice.

The only damage from that accident was a plastic cone scrape on the right fender, it could have been replaced with a new bolt on same color, in stock, front right fender for a few hundred, instead I am finding the whole car was repainted.

Not even the last four of the vin was right, the NYS lemon law applied because of the over forty five day rule, automatic lemon. Mercedes, Daimler, mbManhattan, Smart America USA, Smart Financing, MB Collision Center, Geico wore me down.

Only one girl said on behalf of Mercedes, Daimler, Smart America USA, Smart Financing, Mecedes Road Assistance, all dealers involved I apologize for them. I literally can find no place to start. I have never seen a customer treated so poorly. I am truly sorry. I am escalating now. The answer, vehicle is operational from top tier of Mercedes-Benz.

To this date I still love my Smart. I can never go back to gas. There are no other style electrics that appeal to me. If KIA Soul, two 2019’s in Idaho, did not look like a station wagon at 120 miles per charge, I would get one of them.

Elon was on the other day, He said, I quote, the electric car business is finished. Elon scared everyone into thinking it was the future. It’s not. Elon is the future. He can get all the money he needs at any time even for any project that won’t work, in one phone call, tonight.

Meanwhile, every manufacturer has minimum three electrics for 2019. Elon said two days ago, Tesla is finished. They are just too expensive. Ah, thanks Elon. He had the power to scare all major and minor manufacturers that electric is here to stay.

Sorry I made your understanding more difficult because these little random irritants come out of nowhere. One thing you are right on for sure is it is too dangerous to drive.

The reason I don’t care because I have that gene or disease that gives no fear of anything but I’m missing the good part, the feeling of being in ecstasy everyday, I don’t feel scared that the Smart would sever an artery or take my head off. It is so weird.

One part I did get. The car wash manager asked me today, I have to ask, why since that day a couple weeks ago did you not show one sign of being upset. Most people come in the office and start screaming because we didn’t wash the car good enough, you were laughing.

I explained the above. He is a great guy, so are the other guys. He called their insurance company today with me there. He is just plain fascinated with me. Then, he showed me tapes of some angry women. WOW.

Anyway, it is dangerous, it will slice and dice. The crumble into balls is bs. It just doesn’t do that. At least two I’ve seen.

Thank you for the great advice. I have to meet a partner half way for a biz meeting and it’s 65, really dangerous if you aren’t doing at least that.

One piece of random news. I called a local car replacement car glass place, the best. She said it was such a pain they don’t do it anymore. Wind noise, just for starters. The price was astounding. Without any of the lane change and other warnings, the price was 379.88 with NYS tax, 8% included. I honestly was expecting 600-800.

Thank you Miss Mercedes.
 

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Sounds like you're a lot like me! :D Sometime not too long ago I kinda stopped being scared at things. Now I kinda just shrug off dangerous things like just another day in the life. This May I'm planning on taking a cruiser or sportbike motorcycle on a 500 mile offroad navigational rally, the same one I took the little smart on last year. They said I was crazy, but the little car rocked! :)

On topic: I'm not sure how your state works, but in my state a car in the condition you describe would be a cop magnet and I don't even think it would be legal for a dealership/shop to give you back the car in such condition. :eek:

Your dealership nightmare story is part of why I simply refuse to bring my 453 in for the fuel tank fix or the suspension service bulletin. Even when fixing warranty items they always manage to break, stain, or scratch something else in the car. Three dealerships within 50 miles of me and I don't trust any of them. I love the car, but don't trust the dealers for anything (with exceptions for MB of Madison and MB of West Covina).

Good question about the cabrios! Sometime back we had a guy called 'smartcar111'. Like me, a smart was his dream car and he got his hands on a beautiful cabrio. Well, one day he got into a crash in it that (if I recall) resulted in a broken something; knee, I think. Understandably, he never got back behind the wheel of a smart and he's now an Audi guy nowadays.

Anyway, that crash set me on a bit of a research adventure to see how the cabrios stack up against the coupes in terms of safety. The videos smart made describes the tridion cell like the hard shell of a nut, with the entire structure dispersing forces. But I always wondered how does it work when the cell isn't whole? The side rails don't really add much structural integrity (I've seen some crashes where they got ejected). Officially, the cabrios have a strengthened lower tridion cell portion, a rollbar, and strengthened A-Pillar.

In the end, what I found is that the tridion of the 450 and 451 cabrios do seem to crumple easier than their coupe counterparts. However, this isn't surprising as many (most?) cars that have convertible variants experience the same. They're still very safe like all smarts are, but they perform slightly worse in head on crashes. I have no idea about the 453 cabs as I haven't seen enough of any 453s crashed to study them.

Good luck on this saga and safe travels, that poor little car!
 

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IMHO - say goodbye to that car.



Put pressure on the insurance company to total it and the carwash to make you whole with the difference toward a replacement.


You continue to be mister_nice_guy but get a nasty lawyer to do the dirty work.


-Barry-
 

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"The car wash took responsibility and I have a video plus narration to the accident by the manager."

IF this is a LEASED smart ED you need to have the car wash insurance company write you a check to buyout the lease as it sounds like the damage will TOTAL the vehicle in the eyes of MBFS???

If it is "owned" same as above as you need to cut your losses SOONER rather than later . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sounds like you're a lot like me! :D Sometime not too long ago I kinda stopped being scared at things. Now I kinda just shrug off dangerous things like just another day in the life. This May I'm planning on taking a cruiser or sportbike motorcycle on a 500 mile offroad navigational rally, the same one I took the little smart on last year. They said I was crazy, but the little car rocked! :)

On topic: I'm not sure how your state works, but in my state a car in the condition you describe would be a cop magnet and I don't even think it would be legal for a dealership/shop to give you back the car in such condition. :eek:

Your dealership nightmare story is part of why I simply refuse to bring my 453 in for the fuel tank fix or the suspension service bulletin. Even when fixing warranty items they always manage to break, stain, or scratch something else in the car. Three dealerships within 50 miles of me and I don't trust any of them. I love the car, but don't trust the dealers for anything (with exceptions for MB of Madison and MB of West Covina).

Good question about the cabrios! Sometime back we had a guy called 'smartcar111'. Like me, a smart was his dream car and he got his hands on a beautiful cabrio. Well, one day he got into a crash in it that (if I recall) resulted in a broken something; knee, I think. Understandably, he never got back behind the wheel of a smart and he's now an Audi guy nowadays.

Anyway, that crash set me on a bit of a research adventure to see how the cabrios stack up against the coupes in terms of safety. The videos smart made describes the tridion cell like the hard shell of a nut, with the entire structure dispersing forces. But I always wondered how does it work when the cell isn't whole? The side rails don't really add much structural integrity (I've seen some crashes where they got ejected). Officially, the cabrios have a strengthened lower tridion cell portion, a rollbar, and strengthened A-Pillar.

In the end, what I found is that the tridion of the 450 and 451 cabrios do seem to crumple easier than their coupe counterparts. However, this isn't surprising as many (most?) cars that have convertible variants experience the same. They're still very safe like all smarts are, but they perform slightly worse in head on crashes. I have no idea about the 453 cabs as I haven't seen enough of any 453s crashed to study them.

Good luck on this saga and safe travels, that poor little car!
Thank you for your kind words. I haven’t been posting anything about this because it’s gotten to the point I can’t get the owner of Mercedes to call the owner of Geico and vice versa.

I actually had to find out who the insurer of the car wash was myself by taking clues from the guys at the wash and by now I think I’ve filed four false insurance claims.

Billy Hipp, no offense Billy, but you’re an *******. I haven’t used the f word in 27 years and there it was.

There is a point when I found a person who understood the car business and was willing to have a conversation, you can have the guy call me or I’ll call him, you can even give him my cell number. Wow.

As I told him the novel. Two adjusters who took money to let me drive around in a structurally unsound vehicle, a manager of MB 6 million $ collision center laundering money for customers. Thinks took a different tact.

We can alwasy go back and look at the structural damage and fix it. NOOOOOOO. Do you know what you just said. I told him what the FBI which make him testify to with those words.

The head of MB was calling me and by the reams of paperwork and 300 pages of computer reports going to get back to me in 24-48 hours. I said, the last executive secretary told me that too. She called back two weeks later saying your don’t even have a NYS lemon law claim.

I quoted the wording, if for any reason the vehicle is not out of the body shop in NY state, after 30 days, it would be considered a lemon by law and replaced. It had been 45 days and two issues hadn’t even been addresssed. Also, it came back in worse shape that when it left me. All that had to be replaced was a front right fender. They spayed the whole car and did more damage, like, a .22 caliber size hole under one of the two badges. I sitlll don’t have the other, over a year later.

I promise I will call you within 24-48 hours and make you whole.

I called today and had a rep read those exact words to me.

The owner of the car wash after six years of not even a light scratch arbitrallly moved the front and rear sensors to furthest front and the furthest back which means there was no car in the tunnel.

The door isn’t meant to keep people from getting out but to keep late night burglars from getting in using the appropriate hydraulic pressure with increasing power until the job is done.

That gives a small slice of six a day on the phone. None of the car repair shops will repair them.

Anthony, a engineer as far as Smart goes, knew all the layers the roof, a very important part of the tridion cell, could not buy a crashed car part from Smart. He nicely refused to do the job. He was tip top.

He added, there is one hot rod shop that might do it for you, to make me laugh, I did.

Here is my position today. For the roof replaced, the windshield glass and clearly marked this is a preliminary estimate only. Some guy pulled up in Geicomobile, wrote out another estimate, gave me a check for 2450$, I asked what’s this for. To get your car fixed.

That might pay for transport to and from the closest authorized repair center but you’re about 26,000 short. Kidding.

He said a few words and I broke a 27 year promise.

Anthony will under no circumstances fix the car and since they did do most of Geico’s sub contract work said, there is no one that would take a chance in this area but you are welcome to try.

In addition. It has to be flatbedded to a Mercedes collision center to be “recalibrated” and “recertified” as a road worthy vehicle. MB just ignored the structural damage from last year, callled it operational and as the exec sec put it, your car has been fixed, you have you’re car, goodbye.

Well ........ There is literally hours of this but I can not bore you all again this year. Thank you all for your encouraging words.

For Miss Mercedes with all your research I did find this as how important the roof is to the tridion structure. It was the only car to get the good rating which is the highest you can get. The Chevy Avira did not get a rating. I don’t have a date, I don’t know who these people are or if they are credible but they have the right equipment. I would rather be in a Smart than any other in a rollover.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=W03LNe27h6I
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"The car wash took responsibility and I have a video plus narration to the accident by the manager."

IF this is a LEASED smart ED you need to have the car wash insurance company write you a check to buyout the lease as it sounds like the damage will TOTAL the vehicle in the eyes of MBFS???

If it is "owned" same as above as you need to cut your losses SOONER rather than later . . .
The Smart ED is a 2018 one pay lease. I had to file four false insurance claims to find CK's Car Wash in Johnson City, NY.

There are so many complications I would love to do just that. The car wash insurer when I finally found them, Utica, NY, they came up with a thousand less the 50$ ded. Geico came up with 2450. The head of MB lol said he would call me back in 24-48 hours and “make me whole.” I just missed him four days after.


Mb Manhattan in NYC said that to me when an older guy knocked on my door and said here's your new car. Already paid for my options were limited.


I said that’s not mine. The one I ordered is dark gray over silver metallic, no one orders white interior and it’s the wrong vin.


Oh, there is some damage. Rock holes cracks and dents. More in a have had it post next.


One nice thing.


For every slightly less than a mile I drive, I get a free one on the indicator.


Apparently, it is Tesla’s lost self charging car.


As I drive, it self charges. Elon call me, I have what you were looking for.


Total story of yesterday next. I was going to post I technical but it’s pretty sparse there.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Kind of have to write this to keep myself sane

There are posts from the same car last year. I literally got killed with no support from MB, Daimler, mbManhattan, NYC, Mercedes Benz Collision Center in Bergen, NJ.

End of that, MB exec level. The car is “operational.”


I don’t know where to start. I will take my time so spelling is right.


CK’s Car Wash insurance carrier is Utica Mutual Insurance in Utica, NY. The lady called and sometime during the darkness someone came by to access the damage. It was slightly over 1000$.


I found an exec of safety control at my insurance company who was the first person who understood what I was talking about other that Miss Mercedes.


The car wash beating was on February 25th, 2019. I had no call from anyone. I said at least I had better document the damage. I went to Geico’s Car Star. Anthony was a great young man with close to engineering capabilities.


He said hi and said he would go back and do an estimate. I found it strange that the car was not allowed in the building much less a lift.


He came back in 20 minutes with nothing and apologized. There is no listing for that model yet.


He did not want to estimate it. I almost begged him. Geico has a little known rule book that is called “chain of custody.” I was not going to report it to them. I reached out to a friend who is always right. He knows me well enough to just say report it to them. Do not take the chance.


The exec I liked did not tell me about the chain of custody book but some other nasty guy did.


Back to Car Star, Vestal, NY. Since Geico is intermediary for all the insurance companies, Car Star and Anthony knows all of the fix it shops. He came back with some papers, all right.


I would not waste your time if this guy wasn’t “the guy.” He knew all the alloys and layers of metals either tig, example welded, he named the layers that provide the essential strength along with the tridion cell and knew it was an integral part of race drivers cage, particularly in a roll over. He knew the car was not structurally sound from the six million dollar MB Collison Center in Bergen, NJ. Two adjusters took money, the manager laundered money for his customers and I did become friends with him for a while.


I did not ask, he freely told me of his money laundering scheme and how he did it while I said, you know we are talking by wire and you just can’t say these funny little stories.


If you will stop, I will give you the number of a friend who 803 to 0 against the IRS in Criminal and Cival cases. It’s my only free be, so keep the number. He laughed, said he appreciated it and said he wouldn’t need it. Wow, Staggering.


The car gets back with structural damage on the right entire right unibody. Anthony knew this.


The estimate came in at 2450$. I went to myself, what ? A new roof, now noticeable structural damage he must report from MB Collision Center in Bergen, NJ. I tried but I still can not prove there was a third accident while at Mercedes Benz Collison Center. The only damage leaving me was a front brush burn that could be unbolted and replaced.


I know the two adjusters colluded with MB. That is why the unibody damage was not fixed. The entire car was resprayed and before it came off the flatbed, I had the driver look at it while I recorded him saying that is the worst **** poor job I have ever seen.


All the rest is in another post.


Yesterday, the car shut down in traffic on our most traveled street in town. The screen filled with Engine Malfunction, take to shop, turn off key, multiple others. I had enough momentum to get to the car wash and into the tunnel. Why. I don’t know.


As I approached the door, it closed. I just closed my eyes and took a nap. Later in hysterical laughter the guy saw the door close, then started punching the shutdown and emergency door open which opened just in time, darn.


I laughed with them for a while. I went out to leave, all warnings plus a few others. I put a cardboard sign that said, danger, explosive to keep people away.


I waited for a while and to remind you I have a disease that is a two parter. One, I have no fear, the second half is complete esctacy for a lifetime. I didn’t get that part.


So, I said I am not walking home. I got into it and it started as if nothing was wrong. It happened again this morning, same thing, waited, a few new messages, four wheels must be off ground. What. Turn off engine. Pull key out. The battery other than showing it’s charging without a power source and gaining miles as I drive just really ticked me off. The same disease will not allow me to get angry.


I called MB, there were gone. I called road service and I was laughing so hard that the girl thought I was drunk and got off the line.


I got into the car to mail my daughter’s birthday card and the same thing. I will not walk 10 miles to mail this, this thing is going to start or blow me up, my choice. It started like nothing is wrong.


The MB exec failed on his, make you whole on a the wrong car you received in the first place. MB financial who thinks I’m crazy, Utica Mutual tried to pawn the accident off the owner of the wash to Geico. I waited four hours for a call from road service. Four hours later I let it ring.


Ready, Anthony is sharp. He knew what would happen. He told me he can not buy even crashed parts from Smart Car. He knew all the engineering stuff for one tiny mini selling car. He said I am really sorry I can not repair this car. There is no one in the area to my knowledge that can fix this vehicle. Plus, (he knew it was a lease, had all the history), he knew he would find the structural damage making Geico liable for putting the car back on the road. The final, even if he could do it there and all came out well, it has to go to MB to be recalibrated recertified to be roadworthy and not a rolling bomb.


Last part. The guy in safety said one thing out of all he understood that would bury them. He said, of course once we get under there, oh no, don’t you see, Anthony knows that is he sees Geico let me drive in structurally unsound car, two adjusters were fired for fraud, a exec who did not make me whole, MB in total negligence there would be no Geico in months. They would examine every fatality on the goods and that is there job plus it’s personal. He understood.


I don’t cane if anyone believes me. I told MB to have the black team go over the 100’s of hours of digital tape on this car and the gas car I had to turn in and lose 6000$ with two years of lease left, not a scratch with 1300 miles on it that sold for nearly retail.


They will go over every word on every six hour session on digiatal media, you see that box voice identifier on your screen that tells you if you are talking to me of I am switching to someone else. Do you see the box below it called recognitions which is a flat line and hasn’t moved since we started this conversation. They are going to see that too.


Why won’t anyone help me. I know why, don’t you.
 

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The Smart ED is a 2018 one pay lease.
One pay or 36 month pay a lease is a lease and at the end of 36 months MBFS is going to want THEIR CAR back. You entered into a lease contract that binds you to returning their car with only normal wear and tear - any DAMAGE is on you!!!

Unfortunately, the condition (post car wash damage and subsequent error faults) of your MY18 ED will be UNACCEPTABLE to MBFS! At this point I would expect a significant DUE BILL as the value has been compromised.

Of course you could always buy out the lease for what is probably a significant residual and then what . . .
 
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