[Zmonsta]

I have searched all over this forum and the web, watched the related yt videos countless times. I have an issue where the top will not drop in stage 2. Stage 1 seems fine. Even pressing the top open button a second time does nothing except a click from SAM. I have a service manual and the wiring diagram and understand how to test the 5 micro switches. But what I don’t understand is when the roof top (s84/37) and left +right (s84/38+40)cassette micro switches closes the circuit in relation to the movements of The soft top.

Question 1: I tested s84/37 with my finger closing the circuit within the rail and it grounds out. But when I fully open the top in stage 1 (top slides all the way back), the switch is still “open” or the trigger wire is not grounded. Is this normal? Should this switch close only when stage 2 (drop top) is activated where the top slides a little further back right before dropping?

question 2: both s84/38 and s84/40 micro switches are “open” no matter where the sliding top is in stage 1. Is this normal? Will the switch circuit close only in stage 2 when drop top is moved away from the upper side rails?

screenshot of the online manual for reference:

thank you very much for your time and help!
Herb

 

[Zmonsta]

thanks to Lito (from the Smart Car FB group) for loaning me the MB Star Xentry diagnostic tool, I was able to figure out the answers to my question above and my problem. The problem with my 451 cabrio not dropping into Stage2 is because the passengers side mechanical latch to the B pillar (rear trident cell) did not latch even though the top was closed. I noticed this as I could not find the microswitch in the tracks, it was because this stuck open latch closed the microswitch. I insert my finger into the track and pulled the following piece (with the two metal round metal poles) forward and it matched, clearing the microswitch, allowing me to drop the top

From Xentry, here are the microswitch expected triggers during the top movement. These screenshot were extremely helpful and can’t be found in the service manuals or AllData.diy:

I hope this helps others with their 451 cabrio top problems.

 

[Jo e Lefors]

Thank you for your dogged persistence and finding a solution to your problem. As the owner of a smart convertible, I never let anybody touch the removable side rails but myself.
Again Thank you
JL

 

[SMARTKAR]

It seems like the problem was more of a mechanical issue instead of an electrical problem

 

[Zmonsta]

yea! My problem was mechanical. And since I latches that internal lever back manually once, it has not stuck back in unlatched position after cycling through the top motions multiple times. I guess it just got stuck that one time with the PO. Even the Smart dealership couldn’t figure this out for the PO. Next project for me is to replace the roof top sliders and front latch as I found they were broken or pretty worn, that’s going to be a pretty big job..

It seems like the problem was more of a mechanical issue instead of an electrical problem

 

[Sabre07]

I disconnected/reconnected my battery and my roof began working correctly. I had replaced the blown radio/top 15a fuze also. It took the battery re-boot to make everything function correctly.

 

[Andremontenegro]

Hi @Zmonsta I am having a similar problem that you had on the smart 451, but my top is open first stage. I am able to open and close 2nd stage, but I can’t close 1st stage. could you please explain better where to find the latches and microswitches ? I couldn’t find it.

 

[Zmonsta]

hi @Andremontenegro I take it you top is now stuck with the 2nd stage in the up position right? I recorded the following video today, does your top move a little bit once the rails and rear top makes contact? Notice in my video it does a slight move forward at the end of stage 2. Link to video: Smart Car 451 Passion Cabriolet 2nd stage convertible raised

Hi @Zmonsta I am having a similar problem that you had on the smart 451, but my top is open first stage. I am able to open and close 2nd stage, but I can’t close 1st stage. could you please explain better where to find the latches and microswitches ? I couldn’t find it.

 

[Andremontenegro]

Hi @Zmonsta, it was similar to your video! But yesterday I had a surprise, I started driving and suddenly the top went down and back up by itself (Stage 2), and I tried to close (Stage 1) again and it worked. I am not sure what was the problem... but the top decided to work again lol. Anyways, do you have an idea of what this problem might be? in case it happens again in the future. Thanks.

 

[Sabre07]

Mine was opening on its own when I would begin to move forward, also (2009 Passion). I disconnected the battery and reconnected it. The roof began working correctly. I had pulled the console switch and found it was damaged on the inside. I got a replacement off of Amazon, but haven't installed it yet. The car is getting serviced at a shop.

 

[Zmonsta]

@Andremontenegro glad to hear it started to work again, that’a good sign. It is likely a mechanical, so I recommend lubing the tracks esp the latch that hooks and locks to the b~pillar at end of stage 2 closing.

Hi @Zmonsta, it was
similar to your video! But yesterday I had a surprise, I started driving and suddenly the top went down and back up by itself (Stage 2), and I tried to close (Stage 1) again and it worked. I am not sure what was the problem... but the top decided to work again lol. Anyways, do you have an idea of what this problem might be? in case it happens again in the future. Thanks.

 

[Podracer22]

Hi @Zmonsta I am having a similar problem that you had on the smart 451, but my top is open first stage. I am able to open and close 2nd stage, but I can’t close 1st stage. could you please explain better where to find the latches and microswitches ? I couldn’t find it.

That happened to me today, there is a metal hook you need to lift so it can go back up from that position. Check both sides for that hook. It’s just not lifting so you have to lift it while pushing the button.

 

[Andremontenegro]

That happened to me today, there is a metal hook you need to lift so it can go back up from that position. Check both sides for that hook. It’s just not lifting so you have to lift it while pushing the button.

Hi, thanks! Could you tell me where the metal hook is located ? Thanks,

 

[Zmonsta]

the metal hook to the b-pillar, notice in my photo here (small red circle), it is unlatched with the top closed. This was the issue, it should be latched once the 2n stage of the top is closed.

To latch this, slide the double pinned lever here forward, it will swivel the key in front of it downwards, latching the b-pillar. Once I did this, I also sprayed with doing lube and it has not stayed unlatched after operating the top ever since.

 

[Podracer22]

Hi, thanks! Could you tell me where the metal hook is located ? Thanks,

Ok so when the top is down all the way, press close and take a look at the roof unit as it unfolds and tries to reconnect tot he frame. You will see the hooks. They’re supposed to lift but in my case it remained low so it couldn’t connect the roof assembly to the frame where the pillars are. All I did was lift the hook that wasn’t lifting and it reconnected

 

[Andremontenegro]

the metal hook to the b-pillar, notice in my photo here (small red circle), it is unlatched with the top closed. This was the issue, it should be latched once the 2n stage of the top is closed.
View attachment 70143

To latch this, slide the double pinned lever here forward, it will swivel the key in front of it downwards, latching the b-pillar. Once I did this, I also sprayed with doing lube and it has not stayed unlatched after operating the top ever since.
View attachment 70142

Thank you so much ! I will try to find them !

 

[Andremontenegro]

@Andremontenegro glad to hear it started to work again, that’a good sign. It is likely a mechanical, so I recommend lubing the tracks esp the latch that hooks and locks to the b~pillar at end of stage 2 closing.

It stopped working again lol

 

[Zmonsta]

It stopped working again lol

What stopped working? Is your b-pillar latch consistently getting stuck and stays unlatched after top is closed? Meaning you have to manually pull the dual pin latch within the rail forward to latch the b-pillar to allow the 2nd stage to drop the next time? If it stays stuck often, but you can manually move it, maybe some lube would help to restore auto-latch.