Smart Car of America Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
seen about 50 cars lately online for less than 5k and low low miles electric drive

curious if there is anyone here with an electric drive and any thoughts/concerns/complaints/issues with them

just doesnt make any sense how there is so many 2014 electrics out there for so cheap!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
832 Posts
You might try the ED forum....
Keep in mind that most of these cars have BAP, i.e. either an extra $5k or $80/month until 10 years from original purchase are up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You might try the ED forum....
Keep in mind that most of these cars have BAP, i.e. either an extra $5k or $80/month until 10 years from original purchase are up.
what is BAP?

how can someone sell a used car "as is" with a monthly fee/fee on top of it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
seen about 50 cars lately online for less than 5k and low low miles electric drive

curious if there is anyone here with an electric drive and any thoughts/concerns/complaints/issues with them

just doesnt make any sense how there is so many 2014 electrics out there for so cheap!
Great car if you don't mind the limited range or extended charging period. Not only is the initial price low (if purchased gently used) but maintenance is low and cost per mile is low. Very economical.

Don't forget that you are supposed to purchase the battery assurance plus (BAP) plan as well, which costs either $960 a year ($80 per month), or about $7000 if you buy a 2014 and keep it forever, or you can purchase the battery outright for $5000. You do not have to do either of these if the original owner purchased the battery outright themselves, but very few did that (perhaps less than 10%). Some sellers will tell you right in their ad about this hidden cost, while others will claim ignorance. In the latter case, MB may hunt you down to enforce this policy, although there is some debate on that. There is also debate on whether MB will continue the BAP program. Other electric cars do not require any such annual battery lease, which is why the SMART ED sells at a substantial discount.

Aside from this hidden cost, these cars are coming off lease in abundance right now, which is driving down the cost. Also, a newer model of the ED is coming out in just months, so many buyers are waiting to purchase that. Also, SMART ICE cars had bad publicity recently with a gas tank issue, which is driving down demand for all SMART cars. Finally, SMART has discontinued selling SMART ICE cars, which may or may not be further depressing demand. Additionally, other electric cars are increasing their range, which is decreasing demand for SMART ED. Add it all up, increased supply and decreased demand makes the price go down.
 

·
Premium Member
MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
Joined
·
7,765 Posts
seen about 50 cars lately online for less than 5k and low low miles electric drive
Recalling your foray into amassing a fleet of 453's for profit, you may not want to go down that path with ED?

After front loaded EV incentives and rebates, "value" can be very confusing? Many MY14 leases are flipping at auction with the majority of resales being sled PLUS the monthly $80 BAP rent.

That being said, if you accept ED and EV range for what it is you will have a fun and affordable ride. Probably one that you should plan on driving the wheels off as the preowned market will likely remain soft.

And the elephant in the room - with smart pulling the ICE model out of N.A., what will be the success of the brand while offering only an EV?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
And the elephant in the room - with smart pulling the ICE model out of N.A., what will be the success of the brand while offering only an EV?
Initially there may be a hit on ED sales due to folks thinking that there must be a problem with SMART for MB to stop selling ICE cars, but that will fade quickly, especially once the new 453 ED hits the sales floor. It's a fairly different audience for the ICE and ED versions. The brand will become more focused on electrics, which may actually be a good thing for sales of the electrics. Perhaps SMART will pull out of markets that are largely rural where ICE models were the dominant sales and focus on more markets where drives are short and ED sales can thrive, perhaps with focused advertising as well. With MB now rolling out lots of electric MB, MB dealerships and service centers will have no problems taking care of the SMART ED.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Initially there may be a hit on ED sales due to folks thinking that there must be a problem with SMART for MB to stop selling ICE cars, but that will fade quickly, especially once the new 453 ED hits the sales floor. It's a fairly different audience for the ICE and ED versions. The brand will become more focused on electrics, which may actually be a good thing for sales of the electrics. Perhaps SMART will pull out of markets that are largely rural where ICE models were the dominant sales and focus on more markets where drives are short and ED sales can thrive, perhaps with focused advertising as well. With MB now rolling out lots of electric MB, MB dealerships and service centers will have no problems taking care of the SMART ED.
It's a grand idea to focus sales on the ED to areas that will benefit from it, BUT 60 -70 mile range is still 60 to 70 mile range which equals a VERY limited market. With no ICE , I don't see the brand lasting more than a year with the ED.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
It's a grand idea to focus sales on the ED to areas that will benefit from it, BUT 60 -70 mile range is still 60 to 70 mile range which equals a VERY limited market. With no ICE , I don't see the brand lasting more than a year with the ED.
Nothing wrong with a very limited market. Hundreds of successful cars on the road today are in very limited markets; often selling far fewer cars worldwide than the ED. As long as SMART can piggyback on MB, it has low costs for a dealer network and service centers. And the market for electric cars in general is growing quickly; something I'm sure hasn't escaped the eyes of corporate. Even if gas remains low, electricity is still usually cheaper and there is a strong environmentally aware population. As companies like Tesla expand the publics view of electrics, the potential for the SMART ED is definitely there.

The range is not an issue for me or many others. Not everyone needs to drive 100 miles a day. My office is 6 miles from home; my wife's office is 3 miles; kids schools are 4 miles; grocery, etc. are 2 miles. I often go several days without charging; no worries about range. I have a minivan that I can use if I take out of town trips or need to pack the family. The economics of the ED are attractive to me and many others; low maintenance costs, low fuel costs, very reliable. And no one says that there is a 60 to 70 mile limit forever; future SMART models may well far exceed that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Nothing wrong with a very limited market. Hundreds of successful cars on the road today are in very limited markets; often selling far fewer cars worldwide than the ED. As long as SMART can piggyback on MB, it has low costs for a dealer network and service centers. And the market for electric cars in general is growing quickly; something I'm sure hasn't escaped the eyes of corporate. Even if gas remains low, electricity is still usually cheaper and there is a strong environmentally aware population. As companies like Tesla expand the publics view of electrics, the potential for the SMART ED is definitely there.

The range is not an issue for me or many others. Not everyone needs to drive 100 miles a day. My office is 6 miles from home; my wife's office is 3 miles; kids schools are 4 miles; grocery, etc. are 2 miles. I often go several days without charging; no worries about range. I have a minivan that I can use if I take out of town trips or need to pack the family. The economics of the ED are attractive to me and many others; low maintenance costs, low fuel costs, very reliable. And no one says that there is a 60 to 70 mile limit forever; future SMART models may well far exceed that.
I seriously doubt the "future" smart models will ever exceed the range limits that are here now. There's just not the room fro larger batteries and the clock is ticking on the US market for smart. The new M-B electrics, hybrids and the fact that our current President may do away with the mileage standards may lead to the demise of smart in the US altogether.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
I seriously doubt the "future" smart models will ever exceed the range limits that are here now. There's just not the room fro larger batteries
I respectfully disagree with this statement. As a physicist, I am perhaps more aware than you of the latest technical research in battery design. The chances are good that there will not only be reductions in battery cost but also increases in battery storage capability; some of the stuff I have seen would blow your mind. While there are no guarantees, in my opinion the question is more a matter of when than if; and that is the key question as it could take a while for the revolutionary changes. Of course, SMART may just decide that the current range is fine and just market to those folks who agree with that. But I would wager that range will increase with future models, as it has with other electrics.

the clock is ticking on the US market for smart. The new M-B electrics, hybrids and the fact that our current President may do away with the mileage standards may lead to the demise of smart in the US altogether.
M-B electrics and hybrids are a completely different market than the SMART ED is aiming for; no competition there. No question that the elimination of mileage standards and such are part of the reason MB is getting out of the SMART ICE market in the US, but it has less of an influence in the ED market. The ED has the advantages of lower maintenance and fuel costs, and has the strong interest of the environmentally aware population. Consider for a moment that the sales of all electric cars over the past two years has more than doubled all the while states have been removing incentives and gas has been cheap. The elimination of mileage standards and federal tax credits, should those happen, will likely slow the growth of sales but many will still be attracted by the environmentally friendly nature of the ED and the economics. You may be correct that MB will opt to drop the SMART ED in the US as well, but I can understand their logic for keeping it alive for now.

Again, I feel your pain at the loss of the ICE SMART. I also wish they would continue selling it; I almost bought one myself last year. But there is logic in their decision to stop selling the ICE version but continue selling the ED.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Not feeling any "pain" with the loss of the ICE....Been there done that with Fiat (2 of them) in the 80's and later in life with Saturn. smart will just be anothe niche car that came , and went....a footnote in history.

I have nothing against electrics...I'd be happy as anything with the $30k something Telsa 3 when it ever comes out. There's something to be said about the ability to carry four people for a couple hundred miles..That's something a smart ED can't and won't ever do even if battery technology catches up.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Not feeling any "pain" with the loss of the ICE....Been there done that with Fiat (2 of them) in the 80's and later in life with Saturn. smart will just be anothe niche car that came , and went....a footnote in history.
Don't be so ready to write off the ICE SMART. MB will continue to make ICE SMART; just not sell them here. While gas is forecast to remain low for the next few years and the political environment more predisposed to SUVs, I have been around long enough to know many things can happen in the next decade that would change that, in which case american tastes or politics may change and MB may decide to bring ICE SMART back.

I have nothing against electrics...I'd be happy as anything with the $30k something Telsa 3 when it ever comes out. There's something to be said about the ability to carry four people for a couple hundred miles..That's something a smart ED can't and won't ever do even if battery technology catches up.:)
I believe MB will now make an electric ForFour, although I believe they won't sell it here at least for a while. I personally prefer the two seat version myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Don't be so ready to write off the ICE SMART. MB will continue to make ICE SMART; just not sell them here. While gas is forecast to remain low for the next few years and the political environment more predisposed to SUVs, I have been around long enough to know many things can happen in the next decade that would change that, in which case american tastes or politics may change and MB may decide to bring ICE SMART back.



I believe MB will now make an electric ForFour, although I believe they won't sell it here at least for a while. I personally prefer the two seat version myself.
I don't see why they would sell an ED four door when they wouldn't even bother with the gas four door...Let's face smart in the US is done....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
The main problem with the ED at least here in quebec is that most owners find the range is not enough .. and that comes from around 8 customers out of 10 ... the ICE version while getting decent mpg's is still not as good as it could be and most people here will buy a spark, fiat 500 or similar cars before a smart because it has 4 seats .. if the forfour was offered here they would sell like hotcakes. A lot of people here have been asking for it but i don't think MB will listen to customers anytime soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
...Let's face smart in the US is done....
You may be right. But it is likely premature to be so certain of its demise in the US. I am sure headquarters over in Germany gave a lot of thought as to what to do. They saw the market for the ICE SMART declining even with the new 453 and decided to pull the plug. Too many folks going to SUV size. It would perhaps have been easiest to simply pull the plug on the ED at the same time, wouldn't it? They obviously made a conscious decision to keep the SMART centers open and sell the ED. That is not the kind of decision Germany would make if they seriously considering closing shop in the US as relates to SMART. I would guess they'd at least wait a couple years to see how the new 453 ED will sell. They have a shot at a niche market; how many two-seat electric microcars are out there as competition? Admittedly a very small market, but again there is nothing that says you can't thrive in a small niche market as many car brands have done. They may scale down and focus on good markets (like San Francisco bay area) but it just doesn't seem logical they would punt on the ICE SMART but keep the ED SMART if they had any intention of shutting that down in the near future. Again, you could be right in your forecast, but....
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top