[gabeofborg]

[Moved to more appropriate forum]

 

[gabeofborg]

[Moved from General Discussion forum]

Hi there,

My name is Gabe. I just joined this forum. I've found a 2015 Smart Fortwo Passion electric vehicle for sale, and it has less than 18,000 miles on it. My late mother-in-law had a gas-powered smart and absolutely loved it, and she'd be happy to know that I'm thinking of getting this one.

In short, my too-good-to-be-true alarm is going off, and I'm trying to decide whether that's healthful skepticism or outright paranoia. I've been reading some posts here about battery degradation. I wondered how much loss of efficiency was tied to the battery's absolute age as opposed to how much it has been used. I talked to the dealer about this, and he tells me that although any such battery will degrade, this one should be in good shape because of the low mileage. I have this possibly unfounded fear that I'll buy the car and then the battery will lose most of its power before I make it back home—maybe an effect that wouldn't be detectable in what will probably be a short test drive.

The car has had two owners and no accidents, so I'm curious why it was ever sold. My other half speculates that those earlier owners couldn't handle the limited range of the car in a large metro area and decided to go back to conventional gas-powered cars—but that's just a supposition. Maybe they both found something horribly wrong with it and got rid of it? I guess I can't ever know why previous owners made their decisions. I doubt a Carfax report would give those reasons.

I suppose that (either before or after purchase) I could take it to a Smart service center, but I live in fear that I'd be told the battery needs to be replaced (and some website I found yesterday said that it was recommended to change the batteries in smart electric cars every 4 years—yikes!), at considerable cost. But I love the idea of reducing my environmental impact by driving an electric car (my other half has a Prius).

I'd be most grateful for any insights.

Wishing everyone a great day,
Gabe

 

[gabeofborg]

I'll have to check the charge percentage when I see the car tomorrow. All I have so far is online pictures (taken who knows when; the car has been for sale for over a month), and it's showing 60%. The dealer said they have been charging it (from a standard outlet) with no problem, so I don't know whether it was depleted from 100% to 60% when the photo was taken or whether that's as good as it gets. Good questions to ask. Many thanks for your reply!

So you plug in the charge cord that comes with the car and charge to full. What does the dash show re % charge? If you can, drive it for 50 miles or so to test performance. If it provides the range you need on a daily basis, and then some++, go for it.
--

 

[gabeofborg]

Right you are. Thanks very much. The car is $8000 and we have a Mercedes–Benz dealership up here that works on smarts, so I'm hopeful it wouldn't be a horribly ill-informed decision if I go through with it.

Remember you buying a orphan brand.
With almost no dealer support.
Someone else was considered buying one and a few members including myself, offered this advice.
'Don't spend any more than you're willing to lose.'

 

[gabeofborg]

That's reassuring to know. Thank you for your reply! I need to do more reading on what you've mentioned here, but knowing is half the battle. I'm grateful.

The large HV battery seems to be mileage dependent. We have a '12 Prius v with just under 32k mi and I feel like the NiMH battery is still new.

The 12V battery I believe the owners manual of 2015 year has a recommendation/service requirement to change every 3 yrs? Can verify if I'm correct I have high confidence I saw it before...

Dead/Bad 12 V can potentially lead to a dead HV battery which has been a mystery/puzzle on this forum....

smart Home

Access all of your smart resources below, from how-to videos and manuals, to maintenance and recall info.

www.smartusa.com

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[gabeofborg]

Thanks very much for your detailed and practical response! I'll keep you posted.

I have three Smart EV's and we absolutely love them. Have had the longest owned one since 2015. No issues of any significance with any of them. Easiest cars to maintain I have ever had. Couple of comments about your questions - the 12v battery does not have to be changed every four years, but it is a very good idea to keep an eye on it. I actually just bought a battery from my local Mercedes dealer yesterday for $162 plus tax and it will be replacing the seven year old original battery. The original battery is chugging along just fine, but if it goes bad, it could also take out the HV battery. You can always test the 12v battery with a multimeter and there are a few versions of test units for the HV battery available. Full disclosure - my son builds one version that quite a few owners on the forum have.

There was a computer upgrade that came out in 2016 and many of us think it is important that your car has had it done. A call to the Mercedes dealer will tell you if it's been done. There is no charge to get it done or at least there shouldn't be if you need to get it done. Your local Mercedes dealer can also pull up a VMI (Vehicle Maintenance Inquiry) on your vehicle. That will show every bit of warranty work done on your car as well as any maintenance work done at a Mercedes/Smart dealership. You sometimes have to really sweet talk a dealer to release that info though.

You might try to find out one or both of the previous owners. Sometimes a dealer will share that with you and sometimes if you are lucky, you might find the previous owner's info on the manuals that hopefully will come with the car.

That all being said, I would have a hard time buying a used Smart EV right now if I didn't have a lot of history on the car and if I wasn't able to test the HV battery.

Good luck and let us know your thoughts after you see it and drive it.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 22,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 23,000 miles
2015 EV Coupe 21,000 miles

 

[gabeofborg]

I appreciate your giving me things to think about and good perspective. Many thanks.

Life is about choices ICE or ED.

smart was a niche car that at the beginning got a black eye because so many put $99 down to wait a year for an unknown EURO product. A vehicle that had not seen the challenge of City car to Road Warrior on our highways in N.A.

I was there at the launch and remain a smart enthusiast even in orphanhood!

Loved our ED but moved on to get more range and quicker charging.

ED is simply a major electric appliance. Read the specs and if it fulfills your needs - PLUG & PLAY!!!

 

[gabeofborg]

Remember you're considering buying a orphan brand.
With almost no dealer support.
It's not like a buying Scion, Pontiac. Oldsmobile or Saturn.
Someone else was considered buying one and a few members including myself, offered this advice.
'Don't spend any more than you're willing to lose.'
Good luck

Sure enough. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I do tend to be a pessimist, so I'm trying to balance all the ideas in my head.

 

[gabeofborg]

So you plug in the charge cord that comes with the car and charge to full. What does the dash show re % charge? If you can, drive it for 50 miles or so to test performance. If it provides the range you need on a daily basis, and then some++, go for it.
--

I'll see what I can find out. Thank you!

 

[gabeofborg]

So you plug in the charge cord that comes with the car and charge to full. What does the dash show re % charge? If you can, drive it for 50 miles or so to test performance. If it provides the range you need on a daily basis, and then some++, go for it.
--

I think I'll give it a shot. Never hurts to investigate. Many thanks for your comments.

 

[gabeofborg]

Remember you're considering buying a orphan brand.
With almost no dealer support.
It's not like a buying Scion, Pontiac. Oldsmobile or Saturn.
Someone else was considered buying one and a few members including myself, offered this advice.
'Don't spend any more than you're willing to lose.'
Good luck

Sage advice, indeed. I appreciate it!

 

[gabeofborg]

I know this is going to piss off some people here but I wouldn't touch an electric smart (even though I think it would be a fun car). A 2015 is already almost out of battery warranty (if you can even find a battery). How far are you from a service center? You will probably have to get a tow because of out of range. Too limited range. I love my gas Smart and if you want a Smart that is what I would recommend. If you really want an EV do whats already been suggested and look into a different brand.

You make good points. I'm considering the car for use to drive to a class I'll be taking two days per week, about 12 miles from home. I do want to check the battery status. A Mercedes–Benz service center is near where I'll be looking at the car, but I do share your concern about the range in terms of getting towed if I ever needed that. Thank you for giving me a good perspective to consider.

 

[gabeofborg]

I value your comments and taking the time to respond. I'm naturally pessimistic, so I like to talk to wiser people and try to get a balanced perspective. If I go through with this, I'll have the car checked. I found two service centers in my area (the closest only 17 miles away). I also did see a blue Nissan Leaf with about 48,000 miles. Also worth considering. But I do love the tiny aspect of Smarts.

Thanks again.

Gabe, the car was probably sold twice. Someone wanted a EV with a longer driving range. There are very few smart/MB dealership left to service them. The smart car ED just didn’t suit their needs. Doesn’t mean there was something wrong wit’s the car.

If I we’re in the market for a used EV. I’d look into a Nissan Leaf, used Chevy Bolt, Fiat 500e, etc. where at least you have a dealer network for service. There is a battery warranty too!

There is probably nothing wrong with any smart EV. If you decide on one, I’d would look at the 453 model. Battery warranty. And a dealership to perform service.

Good Luck on your decision.

 

[gabeofborg]

My great thanks to everyone once again for the robust array of perspectives and ideas to consider. I did decide to buy the car, and so far it has worked out well. I easily traveled 45 miles between Chantilly in Northern Virginia and my home in College Park, Maryland. I've scheduled a comprehensive checkup for next week at the Mercedes–Benz/Smart service center in Bethesda. I'm looking forward to learning more about these cars and engaging further with this great community!

Wishing everyone a great weekend,
Gabe

 

[gabeofborg]

Best of luck with it Gabe. Probably good that it's going to a former Smart car dealer for that checkup. Ask specifically whether it has had the computer update I mentioned above and I'd suggest having them do a test of the HV battery too. See the attachment for a copy of what those test results look like. Check the date of the 12v battery - it is stamped on the negative terminal. Hope that it is not the original. Hope you got the owners manual packet.

If you can get them to give you a copy of the VMI that I mentioned, that would be great or at least maybe they will let you look at it. With the VIN they will be able to at least give you a copy of the data card. If not, give us the VIN and one of use will get you the data card.

Let us know how the checkup goes and holler if you have any questions.

Len

Thanks, Len! When I arrived at the dealership, the dealer gave me the Carfax report, which alleviated many of my concerns. The car had two owners, one for almost 3 years and one for 2.5, both of whom leased it. The 12-volt battery was last changed in late 2016 (though it's probably due for another unless the second owner changed it privately so that Carfax wouldn't know that), though I will have both batteries examined at the checkup. Apparently the software was updated in September 2018. And I will certainly see about the VMI. Thanks again for the helpful tips!

 

[gabeofborg]

One thing I didn't mention, but maybe in your research of the forum you discovered this. The HV battery test goes back to the last time the conditions for the test were met. That means the car had to be below 40% charge, had to sit for a couple of hours and then be recharged to 100%. If your car sat on a dealer lot for months and wasn't driven, charged, etc. the HV battery test will go back to the last time those conditions were met. So if you want to get the most accurate reading, you should jump through those hoops and have your HV battery tested currently and not what could have been months ago. Sounds like you have a few days to do it.

Len

I had no idea about that, but I'm so glad you told me. I'm getting in the habit of thanking you. Much appreciated.