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I saw in the owner's manual, that the tire pressure monitor sending units could have their signal confused by a two way radio. Does 2m or 440 affect the tire monitors. I don't have a clue what is the frequency of these sending units. I am considering using a Comet lip mount antenae. I haven't looked any futher into installation of this or the radio. 73s, N8PGX
 

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According to the FCC the TPMS would have to be a Part 15 device...

Everyone seeing where I am going with this?


Here is the deal... Part 15 RF emitters/receivers must cause no harmful interference with any licensed service and must accept interference from all licensed services...

Part 15 devices include your garage door opener, TV, car key fob, the car electronics, baby monitors, wireless house phones... RC model planes and cars etc.. and these TPMS units....all must comply with FCC part 15 rules

Smart can make all the claims they want...but the car is sold in America and must comply with FCC rules....

So a safety system is acknowledged by MB in the owners manual to be susceptible to interference from two way radio.... ??

humm.... seems to me they have a warranty issue from day one... all cell phones are two way radio... FRS and GMRS and Amateur are licensed services as is local police and Fire departments..

What this means is that your Amateur radio should not be interfered with by the key fob or the TPMS system.... and if it is, the manufacture (MB) must correct the interference issue by better frequency stability and proper power levels.....

I have never seen a key fob cause any interference in an Amateur radio...alternator whine, fuel pump hash yes, but not these low power RF devices so I expect no interference from the TPMS

Part 15 rules also means that if your legal operation of your Licensed Amateur radio gear interferes with the key fob, TPMS or other RF systems, causes malfunctions, or indicates an error, the manufacture must correct that condition.... good luck every getting that done though

All of us considering installing store bought 2M/440 uhf/vhf FM transceivers can usually bet the 50 ~75 watts ERP and the suppressed 2nd and 3rd order harmonics will not adversely impact any of the on board electronic subsystems in the Smart car

Those considering a Yaesu/Icom/Kenwood 1.8Mhz to 30Mhz HF transceiver usually are clean enough with the typical 100 watt finals...

However, if you add a 300watt or higher amplifier the 3rd 5th and 7th harmonic can be strong enough to cause some grief.. usually in the on board ECU and it communications link(s)...

You can not damage, kill, or harm the system with Amateur level RF on any of our assigned bands.... But high power can make it confused...

Stop transmitting the high powered dirty signal and reboot the ECU (turn the car off them back on) and all will be good.
 

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I did have my Kenwood TM-733 cause issues with my cruise control on my 1995 Ford Thunderbird everytime I keyed up.






BTW this month makes my tenth aniversery of being a ham.
 

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Dave congrats.....I still have a few years... always had the interest just no time or money for the ARS hobby/service... Finally got into it in 01

I spent hundreds of hours helping my dad build various Heath Kits, usually when we were overseas.

Back to the Smart fortwo.... Just for personal interest I plan to put my car in close proximity to my base high power station and see if I can cause any of the systems to behave poorly in a strong RF environment...

My Ford Truck's PCM shuts down the motor at 500+watts on 40 or 80 meters but nothing above 20 meters has any negative impact...OTOH... getting rid of the fuel pump broad spectrum hash was a frustrating and tough to conquer issue.... sure hope this MB system is a lot quieter
 

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I saw in the owner's manual, that the tire pressure monitor sending units could have their signal confused by a two way radio. Does 2m or 440 affect the tire monitors. I don't have a clue what is the frequency of these sending units. I am considering using a Comet lip mount antenae. I haven't looked any futher into installation of this or the radio. 73s, N8PGX
A lip mount on the tail gate looks like it might work. Should be able to pick up a ground there. The rear window defrost loops may help or hurt rad pattern, but in a mobile install it should be ok as long as it doesn't absorb power. :p

The main problem with thru-the-glass mounts is not on transmit, but on receive. The loss can be great. ("if you can't hear em, you can't work em"). :D)

Old WB6 call here, and long time Vhf, Uhf, Atv, antenna builder. 73s

A2Jack.
 

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Comet mounts will work on the rear window glass. I am going to install the RS 730 bracket on my Passion. If you get to Dayton this year, my car will be on display at the Comet area in the main arena. 73s.
 

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Battery Area - Radio Mount?

I've been eagerly awaiting my smart...configured in March.

I found a copy of the manual online. It looks like there's a bit of room under the foot rest on the passenger side...near the battery.

Is this just because not everything is in the picture? Or, is there really some space there? It would be a good place to mount the radio, then put the control head up on the dash.

Good ideas about antenna mounting. I was looking at a glass mount on the windshield as well, don't have many other options as I'm getting a Cabrio.

I'm also thinking I might be able to make a bracket that would attach under the front cowl, or maybe even next to the tailgate.

But, it's all just speculation right now...I can't start anything until it arrives.

I do find it interesting that the ham bands are called out specifically in the maximum power ratings chart.

The transmitting power of the telephone or
radio must not exceed the following maximum
values.

Frequency range (band) ** Maximum transmitting power (Watts)
Short wave (<50 MHz) ** 100 watts
2 m wavelength ** 50 watts
0.7 m wavelength ** 35 watts​
0.25 m wavelength ** 10 watts
FYI, I'm looking at IC-2820 as D-Star is perty active where I am (Orange County, CA).

Michael / AF6FB
 

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Michael

I too saw the interesting note or caution on RF power levels...see my note above about FCC Part 15 devices...

I think it interesting that the power levels for <50Mhz, 2M and 70cm are exactly what most rig are supplied with power wise

I find that mobile HF (<50Mhz) at 100 watts into a inefficient antenna sux so I usually run a 300 or 600 watt external amp... but I already decided not to run HF in this car so I really do not care about that particular limitation.... for 2M or 440 the 50w or 35w factory power levels are good enough for all repeater use and OK for some simplex. I don't chit chat on UHF much so I don't need a 160w brick to keep long distance simplex QSOs going....but if you are used to "helping" your 2M with one it may be an issue


However I seriously doubt any of us with RF problems will ever get the Mercedes folks to properly shield their computers even if our Laws demand it... IN the past I have been successful in forcing Ford to configure my vehicle same as they do a police car and provide me with the fuel pump EMI kit... but that is a whole other "story"

Back to ham radio in the smart.... I suspect there are several good locations for the "body" of most rigs and the standard separation kit control cable provided will be more then long enough to reach every location in the dinky car.

If you dealer has the rolling cut away chassis to look at you will see that there are a LOT of antenna locations .... for example we could put the mount on the opposite area from where the factory radio antenna goes... that triangular flat area in front of the door mirror. I like the center rear of the roof but for Cabrio folks that is not possible. But a compromise might be the upper rear Tridion area...it is hollow so the feed line can be snaked into the rig and it would be the perfect ground counterpoise
 

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My car will be on display at the Comet Antenna area in Hara Arena in Dayton. The car will have many different types of Comet antennas on it. Icom will also be displaying the latest DSTAR mobile rig in the car as well. Just look for the full size smart banner above the Comet display. 73s
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I plan on using the Larsen Kulglass mount dual band antenna.



Kulglass™ Series High Performance Glass Mount Antennas
Larsen’s Kulglass™ series uses a patented low impedance design and advanced materials to produce the world’s best on-glass antenna.
The KG uses advanced resin polymer plastic to completely enclose the circuit board or loading coil for mechanical durability
and weather resistance. 3M™s best adhesive tape, plus Larsen’s unique bonding enhancer ensure the best possible grip to the glass.
I got the Kulglass yesterday. The instructions say not to put on the windshield - the glass is too thick. No where else to put it on the Cabrio (which I don't have yet - but soon!;))
 

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Discussion Starter #32
My car will be on display at the Comet Antenna area in Hara Arena in Dayton. The car will have many different types of Comet antennas on it. Icom will also be displaying the latest DSTAR mobile rig in the car as well. Just look for the full size smart banner above the Comet display. 73s
Pictures will be taken, right?:cool:
 

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I'm installing a short wave radio and Emergency Position Radio Indicating Beacon in case I get lost at sea............Geez! C'mon////Ham radio?
 

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You bet!! I have to take some photos of the car with the antenna installed this weekend for Comet. They will use these on the banner at Dayton. If I don't get enough photos of Dayton. QST is doing an article about the car at Dayton as well.
 

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Yes, HAM radio...

I'm installing a short wave radio and Emergency Position Radio Indicating Beacon in case I get lost at sea............Geez! C'mon////Ham radio?

Not all automotive radio installs require giant antennas. In Southern California, there is plenty of rewarding activity on the VHF and UHF bands. These require only a modest whip antenna.

You may scoff at my interest in having a radio...to talk to my friends...or to have your "Emergency Position Radio Indicating Beacon"...but the reality is that most people today have these things already, maybe even you. Remember, your cell phone is nothing more than a specialized transmitter and receiver. It probably even has a GPS in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I'm installing a short wave radio and Emergency Position Radio Indicating Beacon in case I get lost at sea............Geez! C'mon////Ham radio?
APRS (automatic position reporting system) on two meters will show you anyone's location that is transmitting. I will be driving to Pahrump, NV. Thursday.
If you go to Findu.com and change the search info (in the location box end) to the known ham call sign, you can find the last known location of the user of the last ten days. Worldwide.
In the location box you will see a call sign near the end. Change it to my call sign (KE6VUP-15) and you can track me (no smart yet, Ford Explorer) from Thursday through Monday (coming home).
I will be able to to the same thing with the Larson Ant. on my smart. Especially next year - same trip - but the smart. Especially with gas prices. Sheesh!:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #37
You need shortwave out in the ocean. On land we have these things called repeaters (HAM) and digipeters (APRS). Line of sight.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Got the Larson glass mount installed today. I was installing my Scangauge II in the ceiling panel and while I had it out, it was very easy to install the Larson and run the cable down the post (coiled it up and stored under the dash for now).

Top panel and post cover removed.

The post reinstalled.


Antenna attached (look for it).:cool:
 
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