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I was walking out of a Soeedway this morning (my work vehicle is a hybrid). I started wondering why we're not seeing gas stations installing charging stations. It would make sense for them to install stations that require some form of payment to activate the charging station. Why not make money off of it?

But then I wondered if Big Oil has decided they will not support the EV revolution in any way. Anyone have any insight in to this idea?
 

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Who wants to hang out in a gas station waiting for their EV to charge? I certainly wouldn't pay for that "privilege". Now a mall or coffee shop might be a draw. 99% of the time we charge at home. Fuelling up our Mazda has become irksome. Particularly if we have to wait 15 minutes in the lineup at CostCo gas bar. Even though its faster than charging. :)

The better place for chargers, away from home, is at businesses. My wife's office is installing some L2 chargers for the staff, and that's going to be super convenient. From a "don't have to unload the L1 charger etc." its great, especially in the winter. Also, she can get a full charge in the morning and then go where ever she needs on the other side of the city. Quick charge at the end of the day and she's good to go to come home. Plus, hey, "free" power. Which is nice with TOU rates.
 

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It would make sense for them to install stations that require some form of payment to activate the charging station. Why not make money off of it?
Tough for Speedway and Big Oil to find a profit margin that can be justified for such a small segment who are ISO FREE charging!

Add to that the time constraints of L2 charging and it just isn't currently a good business model?
 

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It would seem like it could become a market. I mean, if you NEEDED a charge, I'm sure many of us would pay extra for it. But there again, with the cost of descent commercial chargers, the payback probably isn't even there...let alone making any money from it.


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Think of it this way, how many "turns" (measured in minutes) per day does a gas pump see compared to a L2 charger (measured in hours) on that very expensive piece of real estate?
 

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No conspiracy required, just business.
Try to do a payback calculation for a public charger. It's pitiful. Only thing that pays for chargers at malls, parking garages, etc. is marketing. There is more value in incentivising a customer to park at your store (and spend more time shopping there) than you could directly charge him for the electricity.

There are networks with pay-as-you-charge infrastructure (Chargepoint, EVgo, nrg). But they all struggle to make that business model work.

For DC fast chargers it gets even worse. The investment required is in the $100k range per channel. Too bad we didn't go with cheap and ubiquitous AC fast charging like Europe.
 

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The technology isn't there yet. Petrol stations are by design, for quick in and out stops. Current EV charging technology (even Tesla's Superchargers) mean you'll be sitting for at least thirty minutes. And unless they have a farm of EV chargers, that'll also mean that other EVs can't use the station either.
 
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We've all been saying in one way or another that when you are thinking about gas/petrol stations you are talking about the past. Paradigm change!

There is no compelling business reason for them except for servicing the (hopefully) ever fading numbers of ICE vehicles.


The same may be mostly true for auto dealerships.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It really is a shift in thinking. I've been telling my boys how excited I am to see what their future holds.


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We've all been saying in one way or another that when you are thinking about gas/petrol stations you are talking about the past. Paradigm change!
For anyone over the age of forty, the phrase isn't paradigm change, it is pipe dream. Dino Juice isn't going to get out of your nightmares in our lifetime. Not because it's great, no. Because EV technology has that far to go before it's ready to put the IC Engine to bed. It, or something even better, will happen, by necessity. But, we won't live to see the day.

Not a paradigm shift, so much as a hint of changes to come.

---
On another, related topic:
http://www.mcpressonline.com/analysis/commentary/so-to-speak.html
Hard to believe the above is a decade old.
 

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For anyone over the age of forty, the phrase isn't paradigm change, it is pipe dream.
Ageism aside, I think I'll stick with my paradigm change wording. Most people who are negative on EVs have a poor grasp of scale and the effects of exponential growth. In 2010, globally, there were only a few hundred plugin vehicles sold. The current sales figures are over three orders of magnitude better than that already. An EV dominates the luxury (high margin) sedan market. If that can happen in six years I'm not willing to bet against what happens during the rest of my lifetime.

I'm sure that this internet thing is just a fad though...
 

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According to another SCoA thread, the US is supposed to have a nationwide network of charging stations up and running in 2020....:shrug:

And where's my flying car, damnit???? :D
 

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Ageism aside, I think I'll stick with my paradigm change wording. Most people who are negative on EVs have a poor grasp of scale and the effects of exponential growth. In 2010, globally, there were only a few hundred plugin vehicles sold. The current sales figures are over three orders of magnitude better than that already. An EV dominates the luxury (high margin) sedan market. If that can happen in six years I'm not willing to bet against what happens during the rest of my lifetime.

I'm sure that this internet thing is just a fad though...
Paradigm shift or not, EV's still aren't mainstream enough for 90% of the population. And Tesla's forray into the luxury sedan market was a smart move. Build a car for the segment that can afford to bankroll the developement, then go after the general populace...

I'm certainly not opposed to the concept of EV's. I am currently opposed to the execution(which is technology limited). They are still way more expensive than ICE vehicles(a trend that should change as the technology matures), they still don't have enough range for my needs, and the charging times are still too long.

When they develope EV's that can get 350+ miles on a charge(no matter the weather), sell for less than $20K, and can be recharged at a road-side stop in less than 5 minutes, give me a shout, I'll be interested. Until then, I'll keep my ICE vehicles...:nerd:
 

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Paradigm shift or not, EV's still aren't mainstream enough for 90% of the population. And Tesla's forray into the luxury sedan market was a smart move. Build a car for the segment that can afford to bankroll the developement, then go after the general populace...

I'm certainly not opposed to the concept of EV's. I am currently opposed to the execution(which is technology limited). They are still way more expensive than ICE vehicles(a trend that should change as the technology matures), they still don't have enough range for my needs, and the charging times are still too long.

When they develope EV's that can get 350+ miles on a charge(no matter the weather), sell for less than $20K, and can be recharged at a road-side stop in less than 5 minutes, give me a shout, I'll be interested. Until then, I'll keep my ICE vehicles...:nerd:
There's also another huge glaring issue with EVs as well: Battery Chemistry!

A number of people have tried towing with Teslas and have discovered one of the biggest problems with Lithium batteries today: They hate staying charged.

In the case of the Tesla, a magazine (can't remember if Car & Driver or R&T or whatever) towed a 1,500 lb trailer with their Model X (rated at over 5k lb for towing) and despite it being a teardrop, the trailer basically chopped range in half. It took them 4x the time to travel the same amount of miles an ICE could do much less.

It's incredibly prevalent too. Try running a "heavy" game on your smartphone with the screen on max brightness...watch how fast your battery depletes. Lithium batteries just can't handle loads. With phones it isn't a big deal, but with a car, that just isn't going to work if it wants to replace ICE.

And it sucks, because I really like Tesla and the smart ED.

Now, Mr. Musk has said that he plans to build a semi truck, so it does seem that he has a solution to the problem, or at least a workaround.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
While I know it's not made for towing, I actually have a hitch on my Honda Insight. It's mainly for a bike rack but I have a lawnmower I occasionally tow back and forth to the shop with it. It has the same issue. The added drag takes it from 40mpg down to the lower 20s even with the most delicate of driving.


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