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Hey guys! So I drive a 2013 Twofortwo and I recently changed the brake pads and brake drums. The mechanics also rotated the rotors twice! I keep spending money on mechanics and there is still a very loud squeal whenever I brake that comes and goes. It stresses me out because I get so embarrassed.. Anyone else experience this? I've done all I can 馃槶 I'm pregnant so I only need this car until next year then I can get a new one. Any advice??
 

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Welcome to SCoA! :)

Hopefully they put on new rotors and new pads. Could be the new rear shoes or the new pads - it's normal on a brake job to put some copper paste on the back of the pads (also possibly a shim) - did the mechanics do that?

As for the rear drums, it's possible to clean and put a small amount of grease on the backing plate where rub marks are evident - ask about that also. Good luck.

BTW, did they ensure the rotors and drums weren't warped before reassembling your brakes?

Oh, and how many miles on the car when it needed the new brakes?
 

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Welcome to SCoA! <img src="http://smartcarofamerica.com/forums/images/SmartCarOfAmerica/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />

Hopefully they put on new rotors and new pads. Could be the new rear shoes or the new pads - it's normal on a brake job to put some copper paste on the back of the pads (also possibly a shim) - did the mechanics do that?

As for the rear drums, it's possible to clean and put a small amount of grease on the backing plate where rub marks are evident - ask about that also. Good luck.

BTW, did they ensure the rotors and drums weren't warped before reassembling your brakes?

Oh, and how many miles on the car when it needed the new brakes?
Honestly, I have taken it to the mechanic to get them done so I'm not sure about the paste.

I have have 3-4 mechanics take a look at the rotors and drums and they said it was perfectly fine. I'm not sure how many miles it was before changing the brakes.

Honestly, the car has always made a squeaking noise when I braked but not as loud. Now it's more evident and embarrassing. I'm going crazy trying to figure it out. The mechanics are so tired of working on it that they don't return my calls lol
 

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Some brake pads can be loud, especially when cold. I had a Chevy pickup years ago with loud pads, I'm not sure what country or what material they were made out of. Is the squeel louder when you first use the brakes and then get quieter after you've hit the brakes a few times, lots of brakes are loud when cold but are fine once they warm up? If you've had numerous mechanics tell you they're fine, then they're probably fine. If it was a rotor issue, you would here and feel a wobble when you make turns and hit the brakes. Does your steering wheel vibrate when you hit the brakes?
 

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My Fortwo has squealed at me since I bought it. It's probably your rear brakes (drums) as that is what it is on mine. I pulled the drums, cleaned everything, greased the backing plate with High temperature grease. The shoes are like new but I roughed them up with sandpaper and tried slightly different brake adjustments but it still squeals at me when they are cold. Going down my driveway to work of a morning I wake my neighbor a quarter mile away, but by the time I drive a couple of miles out the ridge to the interstate they are warm enough to not do it. When I was on college learning to be a mechanic we were taught that the brake drums get hot and become "bell shaped" so that the shoes doesn't fully contact the drum across the width of the shoes surface. But that was back in the days when you had to get your drums and rotor turned on a brake lathe which apparently they done for you already. Now people just throw them away and go to Rock Auto and buy a new set. I found turning the radio up for that first couple of miles drowns out the squealing and wakes me up too before I get to interstate. LOL. DCO
 

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Smark I am gonna heed your advice and go to ceramics on the front of my Smart at the next brake change. But I have temporarily solved my unsightly black brake dust problem by buying new wheels that are matte black finish and the brake dust blends right in. (But I know ceramic pads would have been much cheaper than 4 new wheels from China). DCO

 

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Brake squeal is caused by vibration of the pads (or shoes) against the mounting plate or caliper, and can be caused by vibrating against the rotor or drum.There are pasts or creams (for lack of a better description) that will dampen the vibration that can be used on the surface where the pad or shoes come in contact with the mounting surface, or sometimes a shim is used.
Also once the material the brake is made of gets hot, it will harden and also can cause noise. sanding the mounting points, or roughing the drum (or rotor) will also change the vibration pattern and interrupt the vibration. It will wear smooth after a bit and the noise will return.

Replacing the rotors or drums will also change the vibration and changing the pads or shoes will do the same. Different materials handle the generated heat differently, ceramic handles the heat the best and is better at reducing wear on the pads. It will however cause more wear on the rotors so they may be worn past their service thickness and need replacing sooner (after a set of pads or 2) Most newer rotors and drums are much thinner than the old school ones and so the common practice of resurfacing them has been replaced with installing new ones. The coat of replacement parts is usually the same as turning them down or resurfacing them.

Ceramic pads will give you a cleaner brake (and wheel) and a quieter sound when stopping. they resist heat and will stop better without fading on extreme stopping , not that it is really needed on most smarts. Slotted or drilled rotors will also help with keeping the brake temps down, again not really needed on a smart, but they look cool...The dust generated by the brakes and that coats the wheels is a necessary evil as the rotors and wheels are designed to draw the dust away from the brakes and keep them cleaner. Unfortunately the dust is hot and tends to stick to painted or clear coated wheels.

There are different ceramic pads, and you want to get the ceramic ones, not the composite ceramic pads. those use ceramic and organic mixture to aid in stopping. Also creates more dust than the ceramic alone. If you are doing the brakes yourself, pay extra attention to cleaning any rust or dust buildup on the components and only use lubrication on the mounting points designed specifically for brakes. standard grease will turn liquid at the temps that are present in braking and if it gets on the braking surface, you will not stop!! use it sparingly.

brake noise when you first take off in the morning can be caused by what they call 'flash rust' the rotors will get a small amount of rust on the surface from cooling gown after use and sitting over night (cooler temps) Not much can be done about this except trying a different brand of rotor as some are more prone to this than others depending on the material they are made of. This 'flash rust' doesn't really affect anything, just makes a bit of noise when you first use them. Once it gets worn off, they are quiet again.
 

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My original OEM pads, would sing, like a record playing. After driving 20 minutes on the highway. The metallic in the pads, were playing music on the grooves, on the rotors. When they heated up. If you slammed on the brakes. It would stop. I bought some EBC greens, from Madness. Years ago. To replace them. The singing went away. The brake squealing started. Very embarrassing. Even applied the EBC coating to the back of the pad. when installing them. Talk about dirty brake pads. The worst. Only one car squeals. First thing in the morning. Rust film on the rear rotors. Goes away, first braking.

Brandy, here are some cause of brake noise issues. Hope this helps you.

https://youtu.be/ZvtjnxpFRbU
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Some brake pads can be loud, especially when cold. I had a Chevy pickup years ago with loud pads, I'm not sure what country or what material they were made out of. Is the squeel louder when you first use the brakes and then get quieter after you've hit the brakes a few times, lots of brakes are loud when cold but are fine once they warm up? If you've had numerous mechanics tell you they're fine, then they're probably fine. If it was a rotor issue, you would here and feel a wobble when you make turns and hit the brakes. Does your steering wheel vibrate when you hit the brakes?
It actually only makes noise when it warms up. Sometimes its not too noticeable but once i drive for awhile they become louder and louder. The steering wheel actually recently started vibrating when i brake. What does that mean?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My Fortwo has squealed at me since I bought it. It's probably your rear brakes (drums) as that is what it is on mine. I pulled the drums, cleaned everything, greased the backing plate with High temperature grease. The shoes are like new but I roughed them up with sandpaper and tried slightly different brake adjustments but it still squeals at me when they are cold. Going down my driveway to work of a morning I wake my neighbor a quarter mile away, but by the time I drive a couple of miles out the ridge to the interstate they are warm enough to not do it. When I was on college learning to be a mechanic we were taught that the brake drums get hot and become "bell shaped" so that the shoes doesn't fully contact the drum across the width of the shoes surface. But that was back in the days when you had to get your drums and rotor turned on a brake lathe which apparently they done for you already. Now people just throw them away and go to Rock Auto and buy a new set. I found turning the radio up for that first couple of miles drowns out the squealing and wakes me up too before I get to interstate. LOL. DCO
Mine are fine when i am first driving but become very loud the more i drive and brake.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Brake squeal is caused by vibration of the pads (or shoes) against the mounting plate or caliper, and can be caused by vibrating against the rotor or drum.There are pasts or creams (for lack of a better description) that will dampen the vibration that can be used on the surface where the pad or shoes come in contact with the mounting surface, or sometimes a shim is used.
Also once the material the brake is made of gets hot, it will harden and also can cause noise. sanding the mounting points, or roughing the drum (or rotor) will also change the vibration pattern and interrupt the vibration. It will wear smooth after a bit and the noise will return.

Replacing the rotors or drums will also change the vibration and changing the pads or shoes will do the same. Different materials handle the generated heat differently, ceramic handles the heat the best and is better at reducing wear on the pads. It will however cause more wear on the rotors so they may be worn past their service thickness and need replacing sooner (after a set of pads or 2) Most newer rotors and drums are much thinner than the old school ones and so the common practice of resurfacing them has been replaced with installing new ones. The coat of replacement parts is usually the same as turning them down or resurfacing them.

Ceramic pads will give you a cleaner brake (and wheel) and a quieter sound when stopping. they resist heat and will stop better without fading on extreme stopping , not that it is really needed on most smarts. Slotted or drilled rotors will also help with keeping the brake temps down, again not really needed on a smart, but they look cool...The dust generated by the brakes and that coats the wheels is a necessary evil as the rotors and wheels are designed to draw the dust away from the brakes and keep them cleaner. Unfortunately the dust is hot and tends to stick to painted or clear coated wheels.

There are different ceramic pads, and you want to get the ceramic ones, not the composite ceramic pads. those use ceramic and organic mixture to aid in stopping. Also creates more dust than the ceramic alone. If you are doing the brakes yourself, pay extra attention to cleaning any rust or dust buildup on the components and only use lubrication on the mounting points designed specifically for brakes. standard grease will turn liquid at the temps that are present in braking and if it gets on the braking surface, you will not stop!! use it sparingly.

brake noise when you first take off in the morning can be caused by what they call 'flash rust' the rotors will get a small amount of rust on the surface from cooling gown after use and sitting over night (cooler temps) Not much can be done about this except trying a different brand of rotor as some are more prone to this than others depending on the material they are made of. This 'flash rust' doesn't really affect anything, just makes a bit of noise when you first use them. Once it gets worn off, they are quiet again.
I had a mechanic change my pads to ceramic because we thought that's what could of caused it but it continued. My suspicions is that it's the drum brakes, which we changed as well. I don't know what to do. My rotors have been resurfaced as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My original OEM pads, would sing, like a record playing. After driving 20 minutes on the highway. The metallic in the pads, were playing music on the grooves, on the rotors. When they heated up. If you slammed on the brakes. It would stop. I bought some EBC greens, from Madness. Years ago. To replace them. The singing went away. The brake squealing started. Very embarrassing. Even applied the EBC coating to the back of the pad. when installing them. Talk about dirty brake pads. The worst. Only one car squeals. First thing in the morning. Rust film on the rear rotors. Goes away, first braking.

Brandy, here are some cause of brake noise issues. Hope this helps you.

https://youtu.be/ZvtjnxpFRbU
One my brakes warm up they start making terrible noises. If i slam on my brakes it only makes it worse. I will check out the video but I'm unable to work on it right now. I'm 5 months pregnant ha.
 

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There are different quality of brake pads as well as brake shoes. With brake squeal, it is most commonly the front pads, but take a look at the calipers. clean any surfaces that slide on other surfaces, and look at where the pad balking plates meet with the calipers. Any slight vibration will cause a bunch of noise. There are a number of products designed to dampen the vibration of the backing of the rotor/pads, shims, and a type of glue called Disc Quiet (if I recall) which may make the noise quiet down. also pay attention to the rear brake shoes where they ouch the backing plate, this can also be a source of vibration or squeal. there are lubricants specially made to be used on those spots. NORMAL GREASE IS NOT A GOOD IDEA IT WILL MELT AND END UP ON THE BRAKE SURFACES OF THE SHOES AND DRUMS.

Also don't overlook a wheel that is not tightened or has dirt under it's mounting points, and wheel bearings that are worn out. Allcan cause noise
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Turns out the mechanics who helped me ripped me off.. It was the rotors and I finally got them fixed. Be careful who messes with your car!
 

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this rotors they

this rotors are with.180 microns of rounout when brand new no machine in a shop can mach this.new rotors not a chinese ones ,originals or made in europe only same for the pads.
 
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