[Matt Nicholls]

Hi All,

New to the world of ED but have had smarts before and loved them. Was thinking about buying a used ED, but for probably $1-2k (one tax credits are taken into account) more it seems I could get and brand new 2015 ED. Speaking to the dealer about it, I was told that in order to qualify for the tax credits I would need to have a one year warranty on the battery. Then I was told something that doesn't seem right to me. I was told that the car as sold would have a 4 year warranty, but that it didn't cover the battery. In order to qualify for the tax credits I would need to buy warranty for the battery for one year at $80 per month. When I asked if it was possible to get battery cover for one year only, I was told that would not be a problem.

So, 2 questions. First, for the 2015 ED, is the battery covered with the 4 year warranty? I've read the warranty and can see nothing that says it doesn't. Secondly, is it possible to have BAP for only one year? Or am I being suckered into the full 10?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Matt

 

[Yinzer]

Hi All,

Speaking to the dealer about it, I was told that in order to qualify for the tax credits I would need to have a one year warranty on the battery.

No. A warranty has nothing to do with the federal tax credits or any state rebates.

Then I was told something that doesn't seem right to me. I was told that the car as sold would have a 4 year warranty, but that it didn't cover the battery.

Nope. Not Correct.

In order to qualify for the tax credits I would need to buy warranty for the battery for one year at $80 per month. When I asked if it was possible to get battery cover for one year only, I was told that would not be a problem.

- The "warranty" is called the "battery assurance plus" (BAP) and is really a lease of the battery pack separately from the car. My BAP is completely unclear about terminating the BAP lease except by returning the battery pack and/or the car if the car is leased. Otherwise, you will be obligated to pay 120 monthly payments. HOWEVER, others her have reported that their BAP lease agreement can be terminated by paying a lump sum $5000 you can take full ownership of the battery.

I personally would only buy the car with the battery pack included free and clear. Is the dealer giving you that option?

Some of the things this salesperson is saying should be setting off some major alarm bells....

 

[Johannesl]

Can't tell you from personal experience, but you're being suckered in. BAP is an all or nothing thing. No BAP or full term (unless you buy it out). Also factory warranty covers the whole vehicle (which would include battery, I'd think). Also nothing that I've found in my brief search says anything about needing battery warranty to be eligible for the tax credits.


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[sokoloff]

Matt - I see a lot of BS being thrown your way from that salesperson. Where is this dealer? I bought one a few months ago from the Cherry Hill, NJ dealer and was treated royally and not lied to once AFAIK so far. Be happy to provide the name to deal with there if you're interested. They also deliver!!

I believe that any lease deals that required the BAP would have expired on a 2015, so if you buy it outright, you own the battery with a four year warranty too.

We've got at least two very helpful Smart sales guys here who can clear it all up.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 12,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 1,300 miles

 

[InjuredAgain]

I would bet this is Ray Catena motors. I talked to them about one of the six or seven leftover 2015's before buying mines from MB Oxnard. The story given to the OP was documented in other threads on this forum by me and at least one other person who contacted them.

I don't know that I ever got a clear story on what my warranty was should I cancel BAP after that one year. I did ask if they would be willing to put, in writing, that I could cancel BAP with no negative effects after one year and they did tell me they would do that.

To the OP, I would absolutely get in writing the conditions under which the ED is being sold to you, including what the warranty on the battery is should you cancel BAP after that one year.


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[SuperSmartie]

I would need to buy warranty for the battery for one year at $80 per month. When I asked if it was possible to get battery cover for one year only, I was told that would not be a problem.

No problem at all! What he didn't tell you is you have to pay the $5000 to buy the battery and get out of BAP after that year - or anytime before the 10 years are up for that matter.

Others are right: no connection between tax credit and BAP. And the 4 year warranty does cover the battery if the vehicle is purchased without BAP.

 

[Matt Nicholls]

I would bet this is Ray Catena motors. I talked to them about one of the six or seven leftover 2015's before buying mines from MB Oxnard. The story given to the OP was documented in other threads on this forum by me and at least one other person who contacted them.

I don't know that I ever got a clear story on what my warranty was should I cancel BAP after that one year. I did ask if they would be willing to put, in writing, that I could cancel BAP with no negative effects after one year and they did tell me they would do that.

To the OP, I would absolutely get in writing the conditions under which the ED is being sold to you, including what the warranty on the battery is should you cancel BAP after that one year.


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Correct. And I’ve walked away from them. Found and paid deposit on another MSO (new) 2015 car that I’m paying the same amount you said you paid for yours. Checked the BAP status, there is none, battery is sold with the car. Should be delivered middle of next week. Looking forward to it! Thanks for everyone’s help.

It really does seem to be a deal that is too good to be true. After all rebates, taxes, and delivery, a brand new car with 4 years warranty for $6500. I’ve spent most of this week checking and twisting, but so far it all hangs together. Fingers crossed it continues to!

 

[InjuredAgain]

Congrats on finding another leftover 2015! There definitely aren't that many left out there.

 

[sokoloff]

Congrats Matt. Where did you get yours? Cherry Hill? They had two left. I think I bought the last 451 EV cabriolet in the US from them in May.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 12,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 1,500 miles

 

[Matt Nicholls]

Congrats Matt. Where did you get yours? Cherry Hill? They had two left. I think I bought the last 451 EV cabriolet in the US from them in May.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 12,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 1,500 miles

Was a independent dealer in Sarasota, he had 2 he got from a CA dealership owned by a relation. Should get it tomorrow. Can’t wait.

 

[smartAPM]

Sounds like he has some information crossed. There is a requirement for manufacturers producing EVs that states in order for their products to qualify for consumer Federal Tax Credits, a new vehicle warranty must be offered. It prevents OEMs from pumping out really cheap EVs and attracting customers with questionably low purchase costs on cars with high battery failure rates and then sticking consumers with the bill.

It's another way to try to build consumer confidence in EVs, and I agree with it!

Also, congratulations on your new smart ED! Excited to have you with the brand.

 

[sokoloff]

Was a independent dealer in Sarasota, he had 2 he got from a CA dealership owned by a relation. Should get it tomorrow. Can’t wait.

Matt - if you plan to take the federal tax credit, be very careful. That credit is only available to the first registered owner. If you are the first registered owner, then you will get a Certificate of Origin with the car which looks like a title, but technically isn't. If you get an actual title with the car, then that means you are not the first owner and are not eligible for the tax credit.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 12,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 1,600 miles

 

[Matt Nicholls]

Matt - if you plan to take the federal tax credit, be very careful. That credit is only available to the first registered owner. If you are the first registered owner, then you will get a Certificate of Origin with the car which looks like a title, but technically isn't. If you get an actual title with the car, then that means you are not the first owner and are not eligible for the tax credit.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 12,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 1,600 miles

I have it in writing from the dealer that the car is MSO, has never had title, and is eligible for tax credit. Hopefully that will cover it.

 

[sokoloff]

I have it in writing from the dealer that the car is MSO, has never had title, and is eligible for tax credit. Hopefully that will cover it.

Matt - a letter from the dealer will mean nothing to the feds, but might mean something to your attorney if needed.

You must have that Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin in hand to be sure and make a copy of it for your records, because that's what gets turned in to the DMV when you register and title the car.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 12,500 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 1,600 miles

 

[MB DNA]

Caveat Emptor!

Was a independent dealer in Sarasota, he had 2 he got from a CA dealership owned by a relation. Should get it tomorrow. Can’t wait.

Matt - if you plan to take the federal tax credit, be very careful. That credit is only available to the first registered owner. If you are the first registered owner, then you will get a Certificate of Origin with the car which looks like a title, but technically isn't. If you get an actual title with the car, then that means you are not the first owner and are not eligible for the tax credit.

He actually had 3 ED's wherein he was advertising that Tax Credits are available. One had nearly 4,000 miles and the other two had less than 100 although none of his pictures showed the odometer?

Based on CarFax records it appears that they truly may never have been titled/licensed?

Asked the independent dealer in Sarasota how a second non-mfg "owner" could guarantee the Tax Credit on such a sale - NO ANSWER?

One of the three is still listed on fleaBay whereon he has a rather BAZAAR posting with regard to a BUY IT NOW price of $5,490 ($13,490 - $7,500 = $5,490)?

Personally, I'd be very careful with this transaction as you may own a very big headache at tax time . . .

 

[MB DNA]

It really does seem to be a deal that is too good to be true. After all rebates, taxes, and delivery, a brand new car with 4 years warranty for $6500. I’ve spent most of this week checking and twisting, but so far it all hangs together. Fingers crossed it continues to!

Note that this black MY15 ED with "available" Tax Credit,
VIN #WMEEJ9AAXFK837352 shows only 45 miles.

This black MY14 ED with "available" Tax Credit,
VIN #WMEEJ9AA3EK732943 shows 3,885 miles!

And this flame yellow MY14 ED with "available" Tax Credit,
VIN #WMEEJ9AA9EK732266 shows only 42 miles.

Used smart at Encore Motorcars of Sarasota, FL

 

[Optimist]

Matt, Here is your best and easiest final test/verification.


Post the vin# of your chosen car and ask for one of our smart center Dealers
to run a check on the cars "in service date". If it has one, the warranty began on that date and is subject to the 4 year expiration and you would be the 2nd owner.


Good luck, I have followed the Sarasota listings with great curiosity. You will be our "Authenticator" !

 

[Optimist]

Why the Silence ?


Matt has posted the vin#s in question. We are told that we have 3 "Regulars", who are sitting in smart dealerships at this moment. Why won't one of you step into the Service Managers office with the three vin#s that Matt posted and ask for the "In service date" , for each of these vehicles? It would take 3 minutes and your Service Manager does exactly this on every car that comes in for service for the first time to establish his "in house customer record".


VIN #WMEEJ9AAXFK837352

This black MY14 ED
VIN #WMEEJ9AA3EK732943

And this flame yellow MY14 ED
VIN #WMEEJ9AA9EK732266 shows only 42 mi

Please visit your Service Manager, he is a very nice guy and helpful too !
We of course enjoy your enthusiasm for all things smart as you offer your
"opinions", but this moment requires Facts.
Please one of you, be our Champion !
Thank You!

 

[10470]

Anyone can call MBUSA directly and get in-service dates with any VIN. They are very nice, and accommodating.

 

[smartAPM]

Just checked the VINs, and here's what I can see:

K837352 - Retailed in June of 2017

K732943 - Released to dealer, not retailed, former MBUSA demo car for smart cities

K732266 - Released to dealer, not retailed

Good luck!