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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey everybody. I figured I would start this thread early because it is time for me to experience a fully boosted smart car.

First off, I am upset that I will not be purchasing Paul's kit. I really wish I could and I understand his decisions fully. I am going to go with his advice with a turbo kit and choose Tim's stage 1 turbocharger kit.

Now, time to explain why this is going to be a custom turbo project.

Before I go into explaining the custom part, let me introduce you to the people that are in this project.


Me
-obviously.

Butch-(who would have ever thought of that?!) master fabricator, mechanical engineer, car guru, professional drag strip driver, race boat driver, drag bike driver, and an expert on everything....seriously.

Mark-Butch's friend, ASE certified automotive technician, shop co-owner that we are going to use lifts for the car.

J&M Motorsports-Butch's tuner, the best of the best tuning wise and his friend is a foreign tuner expert we are going to work with.

Kip-Good friend who also likes smart cars and customizing.

Joe-Butch's friend, mechanic, and will be a helper with the installation.


So, here is the breakdown of this build:


I am going to purchase Tim's turbo kit with the dual exhaust option soon (hopefully for Christmas). Then, we are going to go to Mark's shop and install everything and Mark and Kip will help Butch and I install the kit.

Then, after it is installed, months down the road, we are going to work with BELL INTERCOOLERS and Setrab, which is known to be the best in the world and used in NASCAR vehicles, to design and build a custom made water to air inter-cooler setup. This will allow us to run cooler IAT's and increase the boost from 6 up to 8-9PSI and still allow us to utilize the factory intake. We are also going to run an ice box with the water to air inter-cooler setup for the track.

Now, after the intercooler setup is in place, we will bring it to J&M Motorsports to have the piggyback tuned for the extra 3 PSI. Then, it will go to his friend who will tune the TCM to cut down shift time by 25%-50%. Not sure yet how much because I am trying to cut it down to a safe amount without compromising the life of the transmission that much.

After that, we are going to install a 20 shot of NOS just to compensate for the initial turbo lag and give the car a strong shot out of the hole.

According to Garrett, the GT20 class is meant for engine sizes between 1.4L-2.0L. I wish Tim made the kit with the smaller Garrett turbo, but we are going to have to work with it unless I get a good explanation as to why the GT20 was chosen over the GT12 and GT15 class.

Of course, this kit will be running with Redline racing oil with a K&N filter.


Now, questions for you gear heads:


1. Paul, I know that you do not run a BOV and some people do run them. I know at 6 PSI I probably won't need it. When I go to the 8PSI mark, should I install a 20mm atmosphere BOV or should I just not install one? Will it make any difference?

2. Which GT20 turbo is included in the stage 1 kit? There are quite a number of GT20's in the GT20 class.

3. At what RPM does the stage 1 turbo begin to build boost? How great is the turbo lag in the stage 1 kit?


Thanks guys and stay tune for updates. I need about $2k more to get the ball rolling.

Can't wait to hear from you all!
 

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flashback from turbo42?

Broken sfr intercooler
On my way back from Kansas just 10 miles on the return trip of 1200 miles I pulled into the gas station because of a rattle. I open the engine cover and find the intercooler mount to be snaped in half. I will have to call tomorrow am to see what they can do for me.

and this is more from turbo42 regarding the intercooler and fans
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f147/fixing-sfr-intercooler-31915/

glued parts?
be careful

awhile back sfr was offering a 1241 to go along with their masive parts lineup for a smart turbo. maybe you should check with garrett about the proper size turbo for 999 cc.
and ask them about the bov issue.
 

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Brett.... Don's right... John had quite a few issues with the intercooler... not sure if it was ever resolved or not... I know his car was in pieces for quite a while after nationals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Guys, please reread this portion of my thread
Then, after it is installed, months down the road, we are going to work with BELLE INTERCOOLERS and Setrab, which is known to be the best in the world and used in NASCAR vehicles, to design and build a custom made water to air inter-cooler setup. This will allow us to run cooler IAT's and increase the boost from 6 up to 8-9PSI and still allow us to utilize the factory intake. We are also going to run an ice box with the water to air inter-cooler setup for the track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The stage 1 portion of Tim's kit does not have the inter-cooler. Second, it is an air-to-air inter-cooler. I have read that thread and all of the turbo threads many times.

Tim's inter-cooler is extremely inefficient. An inter-cooler sitting where no air moves at all in a very hot engine with the intake sitting in the middle of the engine does not allow the car to get proper airflow and cool air into the intake manifold.

The only portion of the inter-cooler setup that will be in the back is the core. For pictures of the core, please refer to Paul's turbo thread page 18 about half way down. With the core the only portion of the inter-cooler setup in the back, this will allow us to use the side intake as a source for air.

This inter-cooler we are going to run on my car will be a custom made inter-cooler kit designed and built specifically for my car by BELL INTERCOOLERS and Setrab. The radiator will be mounted upfront with an ice box for track use.
 

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im interested to see how the ice box will work out? and will this be shut off for every day driving? interesting?
so there will be a pump of some kind? most likely 12 v. with hoses, fittings, wires and eveything else?
sometimes simplier is better, ...

ive been to tims shop. he rolled my turbo smart and we saw it was tooo lean
he offered to fix it for $1200, then $1100 and before i was leaving his shop he was down to $1000. i stopped on the way home at split second, which sfr uses. and purchased the fuel enhancer for only $200, which took care of the lean condition perfectly. maybe he was charging so much so he could hire a cleaning person for his shop. thats another thing i looked at.

which ever way you go, double and triple check first. ask me, it gets exspensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
The ice box will only be loaded with ice and ready to go at the track. For every day driving, ice will not be in the ice box. We still need to see how much room is in the front for said ice box.

The pump, like you said, will be a 12v pump. We are going to use the highest quality pump for this job with good flow numbers to help circulate the water at the most effective rate of travel.

I know that this project will get very expensive. The water-to-air intercooler setup should run between $1k to $1.5k. This will not be purchased and installed with the turbo kit. It is all about incremental upgrades. Eventually, I am considering having the cold side of the turbocharger setup powder coated and might have a plexiglass engine cover and even cut out the shape of the engine hole for car shows instead of having that flimsy piece of carpet held up all the time. That way, I will be able to show the engine and the NOS bottle.

Fixing a lean condition for $1k?! Wow. J&M Motorsports charges $600 for a day on the dyno with everything measured and custom tuning. Butch might be able to get the price even lower than that for me a bit since he has known him for so long and brought him a great deal of business. I did also hear from Paul that Tim's kit runs a bit on the fat side. I would rather have the car run too fat than too lean.

The entire project along with expenses is practically lined out with details of every step and all the parts and everything ready to go. It has been discussed for days to weeks at a time with constant research and talks to many, many experts in this field and many other fields that pertain to the installation. Trust me, Butch knows his stuff :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yep, everybody you listed knows their stuff too. They wouldn't be in the position they are in currently if they didn't :)

I will be cautious as always. Thank you for your concern :D
 

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Ok Brett, I was gettin' tired of messin' with the Donald anyway.

In regards to your questions they were open to all gearheads and since I have no run time with the GT20 turbo on my mule I really can't answer some of your questions. I do own a stage 1 SFR kit still in the box that I might experiment with someday but not on the front burner right now.
One idea I have for you since you are currently building your cash reserves to fund this project. Take this time now to have your electronic wizards decipher the TCU on your stocker to where the upshifts are as quick as the downshifts. The ECU will need attention too as the ignition cut needs shortened dramatically and no need for fuel cut at all.
I also believe the throttle blade closes to 20% during shifts,not necessary.
Your friend Butch has probably seen drag bikes at the strip and that is their basic strategy. WOT, KILL the ignition for a split second to take load from gearing and the air shifter bangs next gear. This procedure usually will net a sweet pop in the exhaust as unburnt fuel rolls right thru the cylinder and becomes ignited the split second the ignition refires.
A friend of mine has a turbo bike that is set up exactly like this and works great and sounds so :cool:
If you get that all mastered first, you will have plenty of cash to buy a turbo.
Guaranteed! :)

Barney ...send the Brown truck by
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Excellent inquiry Paul. Thank you! This information will be relayed to the tuners that will tune the TCM.

Isn't that pop after the shift called by some as a power shift? I know Butch said I could power shift if I spray NOS through the shift, but I mean that has to do some serious transmission damage right?

I also remember asking you this question on your thread, but still have thoughts about it, but if I install a 20mm atmospheric BOV when I boost up to 8-9 PSI, would that make any difference at all? Wouldn't it help the life of the turbo? Didn't Geo with his custom turbo kit experience different results when the BOV was adjusted a different way?

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and experience with me. Your tips are incredibly helpful in my journey to the boosted world. I'm already ordering a couple of shirts :D


 

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See you've spilled the beans...

Your smart may very well become my all time SCOA favorite. :)

That's interesting, why is the GT20 being used?
 

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Brett, you need to rethink what I said. IF you have no ignition, no fuel and the throttle blade is almost closed between shifts you will be cruisin' for the BIG bang theory if you shoot NOS in at that moment. :eek:
 

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I'm no Chemistry major (yet) but that doesn't sound pretty, begging for some bad chemical reaction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Excellent points. I was planning on only using the NOS to compensate for the initial turbo lag and let the turbo take me the rest of the way down the track. Before I decided to go turbo, we were going to rig a WOT switch to the TPS which we discussed in our PM conversation so NOS would start spraying again at WOT, but if I get the turbo, the NOS will only be used to make up for turbo lag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here is a little thought:

I just got done talking with Butch about Tim's kit. I do plan on calling Tim tomorrow to talk to him about a few things like the BOV, spool times, and the like.

Now, since I watched the cauldron of a pot on Don's thread about his turbo, I have a thought.

Maybe I won't install the return line where Tim has it on his kit. I might go the correct gravity feed way and install it above the oil level.

Paul, Larry, Geo, somebody...where do you have your oil return lines running? Are they tapped above the oil pan or somewhere else?
 

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Here is a little thought:

I just got done talking with Butch about Tim's kit. I do plan on calling Tim tomorrow to talk to him about a few things like the BOV, spool times, and the like.

Now, since I watched the cauldron of a pot on Don's thread about his turbo, I have a thought.

Maybe I won't install the return line where Tim has it on his kit. I might go the correct gravity feed way and install it above the oil level.

Paul, Larry, Geo, somebody...where do you have your oil return lines running? Are they tapped above the oil pan or somewhere else?
Mine's in the drain plug. I think the best place is above the oil level in the side of the pan. Larry had a difficult time with that plumbing, though. Using the drain isn't really bad, but it isn't really good, either.

Gravity will keep the line drained when the pressure is released. The idea is to not have oil in the turbo's bearing after the flow stops, because the oil can carbonize with the heat. Not sure how real that problem is, especially, if the turbo is above the fill line in the oil pan.

Another issue, though, is every time you want to change the oil, the drain line is there. Kind of a pain to contend with is all.

Good luck with you project. Get that shift working more better and I'll be your first customer :)

I do like the GT-12 better. I can have 10 psi by 3500 to 4000 RPM. You're not going to get that on the GT-20.

geosynch
 

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I cannot wait to see this become a reality...Brett is completely serious with this...And he has some great help along the way...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I completely agree with you with every post you made geosynch. We will probably end up tapping the top of the oil pan as illustrated in Jack's instruction manual or maybe somewhere else above the oil level.

You do have a point. Draining the oil might be difficult, but wouldn't you just slide off the feed line and have it drain? Wouldn't it be easier?

I am waiting to hear back from the foreign tuner about tuning the transmission. Hey, if it all works out well, he might just be getting a ton of smart car TCMS for tuning :D

I do like the GT12 better as well. The boost you are making by 3k would probably be close to equivalent on the GT20 as still trying to build boost and still having a great deal of turbo lag. Then again, I have no idea which is another question I am going to ask Tim when I call him. These bigger turbos are only great for top end power and when people see the top end dyno horsepower numbers, they get all excited, but it is all about the effective range of the turbo. While the bigger turbo is going down the track and still having a great deal of turbo lag, the smaller turbo already has the boost and is way out in front of the car with the bigger turbo.

Neon, I am totally serious about this. I can't wait! I'm glad you are just as excited as I am! :D:D:D:D
 

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Brett, I have CNC crafted banjo style fittings that replaces the factory drain plug and has 1/2" NPT female threads. The banjo bolt has an ID of 9/16" (.562) NO restrictive flow guaranteed..


Barney.... feeding thru the oil drain. :cool:
 
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