[sherlockcrypto]

I am currently talking to someone selling their used 2014 fourtwo electric with 4k miles for $5000. I am thinking of getting it? Are there any hidden issues i should check? i suspect something might be wrong with the batteries.

 

[mcowher]

I paid $8k for a 2016 ED last year, with 26,000 miles on it. That price seems reasonable. About the only thing you could do is hook up an OVMS unit to it or one of Sokoloff's battery test kit's and run the cell diagnostics. However, you could also ask him to see it fully charged, and see what the estimated range on the status screen/odometer area says. Take it for a short drive and see what affect it has on the estimated range.

 

[mcowher]

This 2014 Smart ED with 33,000 miles is selling for $4799:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/805630005/overview/

 

[sokoloff]

I'd sure want a battery test report before writing a check. Beg, borrow or buy one. A bad HV battery will set you back close to $10K. I've got two and love them, but I've also had them both since new and know their history.

If the battery tests good, then that sounds like a great price.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 17,500 miles

 

[hallcp]

Can you elaborate on the battery test report thing? My M-B dealer told me they have no such report when I asked for my B Class Electric. Also a link to the "Sokolov test kit" and an explanation of OVMS would be helpful! Although perhaps once you own the car you might not want to learn the bad news ;-)

 

[mcowher]

This is where to get the OVMS Module. By the way, these work on nearly every EV out there, so I plan to keep my for future cars:

FastTech - Gadgets and Electronics

www.fasttech.com

And the OVMS site itself:

Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3 (OVMS3) — Open Vehicles documentation

You can run a command in the Android/Iphone application to show all the cell diagnostics.

Here's mine:

 

[mcowher]

From what I understand, forum member (who posted in this thread as well), Sokoloff, can sell you a battery test unit, which will provide you with similar, if not identical information.

The beauty of the OVMS module is that it's completely internet-based.

I ran this report sitting at my desk at work, while my car is out in the parking lot.

 

[sokoloff]

Here is the initial thread on the test units. Also if your local dealer sold Smarts in the past, then they should be able to do a battery test for you at a cost of at least $50 I'd guess. There is at least one service campaign on the Smart ED's that you need to make sure has been done and there should be no cost for that. Calling a dealer with the car's VIN number should get you that info. My dealer is very cooperative in giving that info.

Smart EV battery test units ready to go

My son built me a battery test unit for my Smart electrics so that I could keep tabs on the state of my batteries. He started out using the info provided by forum member Odyssey on this site - https://www.hackster.io/MyLab-odyssey/ed-bmsdiag-6bece5?. He then made a couple code modifications...

www.smartcarofamerica.com

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 17,500 miles

 

[sokoloff]

The test results in mcowher's post above is nearly identical to what our unit provides. Take a look at Line 9 on that report. The end of the text on that line, i.e. 2014/80/0 is an indication that the service campaign that I referred to in my post above has been done. If the campaign had not been done, the line would show a date of 2013/29/1.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 17,500 miles

 

[nipplesultra]

Um, well, that vintage does have the "bricking" problem. You should research that.

 

[eraoul]

Yeah, these cars are garbage. If you don't drive it constantly it will aggressively "brick" itself. Ours lasted a year but COVID-19 got it.

 

[sokoloff]

I take exception to that. I've had my two for four/five years and they are the best, most fun, most maintenance free cars I've ever owned. I'd buy another new one in a second if they were still around. I'd consider a used one if I knew the history of it. Yes, there is a possible problem with them regarding the 12v battery, but my guess is that the vast majority of owners haven't experienced that. Maybe because most owners probably don't let their cars sit for long periods - not blaming the owners - just maybe the cause of an issue? Of course it they became members here before or after acquiring their car, they would learn a lot of whether the car was right for them and what things to be aware of. Sadly the vast majority owners probably aren't members here either.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 17,500 miles

 

[mcowher]

"Garbage" is pretty strong. I've had mine 18 months, and have had no problems with it. I also got the latest software upgrade applied, which should prevent the bricking issue.

I love my Smart ForTwo ED and hope to have it for years.

 

[MB DNA]

Yeah, these cars are garbage.

While I feel your pain, I too take exception to labeling our beloved smart ED as "garbage."

Electric Vehicles are a brave new world and those who choose to embrace it are part of the "Beta Testing" pioneers. ED is no different than other purpose built electric appliances or Electric Vehicles. You look at the specs and cost to determine which one might be a good fit for you.

You can't do a compression test nor many other things common to buying a pre-owned ICE vehicle when evaluating an ED. This is made more difficult as many are off-lease vehicles that have been bought (on the cheap) at auction by folks who know nothing about EV and even less about ED. As they are a niche vehicle, few buyers know all the nuisances that may come with EV ownership. NOTE: smart is not alone in the BRICKING failure - other EV's are prone to similar failures.

With an ICE, you can replace a failed engine but with an EV those repairs can be near impossible. This can render a BRICKED EV a very expensive paperweight!

The percentage of failure (noted on SCoA) to the total ED population appears to be small (not unlike the percentage of ICE with blown engines/transmissions?) as our Community is only a piece of a much larger pie. Most failures to include at least one other "quarantine lock-down" related BRICK are brought to the forum AFTER the damage has been done.

None of us knew the "risk" when we bought our first ED. Our MY15 ED had a major malfunction that took it down for several weeks and required parts from Europe - fortunately, the HV was not harmed but the 12V also required replacement.

We own THREE smarts none of which are "garbage." Which one gets driven most, our climate controlled go cart SPARKY!

Hopefully your continued pursuit of a Class Action suit will provide you with some monetary relief . . .

 

[sokoloff]

eraoul - I'm not sure if you were asked or if you mentioned, but did your Smart EV have the service campaign update that came out in about 2016 or so? Some think that campaign may have helped to avoid the bricking of the HV battery when the 12v battery goes bad. The jury is still out on that. I think there was at least one forum member who had the service campaign done and his car still bricked on him. The service campaign had to be done at a former Smart dealership and there was no cost to have it done. The big downside is that Mercedes never notified the owners individually and a former Smart dealership was a long haul away for lots of owners. A dealer can tell you if that campaign was done. All they need is your VIN.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 17,500 miles

 

[nipplesultra]

Yeah, these cars are garbage. If you don't drive it constantly it will aggressively "brick" itself. Ours lasted a year but COVID-19 got it.

Do you still have it? Where in the country are you?

 

[hallcp]

Mmmm, yes "garbage" is not the word. All these "pioneer" vehicles have a flaw. Some Mercedes B-Class electrics have the motor fail at 30-40K miles, and the out-of-warranty repair cost would be $12k. And these motors were made by Tesla. And then those early Nissan Leaf's whose range has dropped to nothing.
I do agree that the manufacturers should be standing behind these vehicles, but if you're lucky enough to avoid one of these disasters you have a fine car and a preview of life in the future when EV's rule.

 

[eraoul]

I'm in Seattle. Made a deal to sell for parts on Monday, unless someone has a better offer

Thanks @sokoloff -- I've asked the dealer, haven't heard back yet. I've had the car serviced by a dealer previously, so I assume any outstanding service campaigns were applied if necessary before I bought the car; they didn't mention anything to me when I had it serviced last year. I'll let you know if they confirm with me. Not impressed with the Mercedes dealer though; all they did was plug it in and then tell me "it's not charging". They couldn't even be bothered to scan for error codes since they said if the battery is dead there's nothing they can do and they don't want to waste their time. Felt like a waste of time/$ to tow it there, but at least I have their statement that it's unfixable in case we get class action action going...

 

[eraoul]

Update: @sokoloff yes, FWIW the car did have that campaign done in Dec. 2016.

 

[eraoul]

Maybe the word "garbage" was too strong, but an aggressive self-bricking potential coupled with a lack of disclosure in the owner's manual is what makes me feel that way. Specifically, I read the manual cover-to-cover when my wife bought the car. I do recall seeing the note on "long-term storage", but the manual ALSO goes on to state that the car has to be EITHER plugged in continually OR ELSE kept in a temperature-controlled environment to avoid battery damage. As we store our car in a climate-controlled garage, I promptly forgot this section of the manual as it seemed that it didn't apply. If I had written the manual I would have made it obvious that a low-voltage on the 12V will cause the car to self-destruct.

A more careful attempt to inform owners would have made me happy, especially as this seems to be a known issue. Indeed, after it bricked, I got a postcard from Mercedes informing me that despite COVID-19, they're open for service and will give me $50 off a tire rotation for my Fortwo. Even though they mentioned COVID-19 they didn't bother to warn me of the bricking potential. Not impressed.