[lagalaxy8]

Any advice on how to test or get rear section down? I've held the button even after it stops the first time nothing.

Talked to the previous owner and he said they never put the rear section down because you couldn't see out of it. So think maybe has never been lowered in 10 years...

 

[Miss Mercedes]

Hiya there! I've been trying to research this issue for a few days and I'm still not even sure how you would begin to tackle this. My 450 is having the same issue, though I put it in storage until all of this nasty weather finally ends.

I'm not sure how similar the cabrio roofs are between 450 and 451, so what may work for me may not work for you. First thing on my list is to properly lube the tracks, then I'll lessen the tension to give the motors some breathing room. If that doesn't allow the second section to drop, I'll have to continue figuring out this conundrum.

In the meantime, keep scouring this forum and clubsmartcar.com for answers, I know I am, too!

 

[lagalaxy8]

Same i can't believe no one anywhere has a write up how to fix this, it can't be that hard. I just purchased a Service manual to see if that will be any help, but not had a chance to look at it.

 

[Miss Mercedes]

It's okay! I bought it knowing that the car would be a bit of a restoration project. I happily accepted the challenge. The roof was described to not even be able to make it all the way through Stage 1, so I'm happy I got it to be able to do at least that. There aren't any leaks and everything is present and in good condition, so that's good. Clubsmartcar has a lot of good information on the 450 (1998-2007) roofs (as does evilution.co.uk). Not much about not being able to get into Stage 2, but I think I can figure it out myself.

Here are my planned troubleshooting steps:

1. Replace side rails (they're rusting out).
2. Lube tracks.
3. (If roof still doesn't work) Manually crank the roof into position. I've read that sometimes you just need to get the lube spread out to get it back working again.
4. (If roof still doesn't work) Lessen tension.
5. ?

I'm not sure how similar the process would be on the 451. I mean, for starters your side rails shouldn't even rust.

 

[Miss Mercedes]

Alrighty, so I took my cabriolet out of storage, so I guess we’re in this together!

I need to reiterate that I don’t know how similar the tops are between generations or even if my fix will work for you, but here we go!

 

[Miss Mercedes]

So, I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that my top is working fine...For whatever reason I expected the 450's top to work like the 451's...they do not work the same. The 450's second stage isn't motorized, you just move it into place by hand. My issue has been resolved.

That leaves us with your issue. I believe the 451s come with a crank, should you need to move the roof manually. Have you tried getting the second section to move using the crank?

 

[lagalaxy8]

So, I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that my top is working fine...For whatever reason I expected the 450's top to work like the 451's...they do not work the same. The 450's second stage isn't motorized, you just move it into place by hand. My issue has been resolved.

That leaves us with your issue. I believe the 451s come with a crank, should you need to move the roof manually. Have you tried getting the second section to move using the crank?

Crank? All I know about is you push the button once and it stops in first position, then hold again and it's suppose to go to Stage 2 but does nothing.

Glad you are fixed and ready to go!

I looked at a 450 acouple years back with a broken top also but guy started to take it apart so i ended up passing because i would of had to trailer it. But he had a full break down on how to fix it, which i can't seem to find for the 451.

 

[Miss Mercedes]

Me neither, honestly. I'm usually an expert in these things, but I've not had much of any experience in the cabrios until I got the 450. The 450 roofs can be operated by a crank in the event that the motor(s) fail. After scouring the 451's manual, it looks like the 451s may not have such a thing?

I put this thread up on some active smart owner Facebook groups, hopefully we'll get an answer shortly!

 

[Jo e Lefors]

I'm on my second smart convertible, no crank or a place to operate one on a 451.

 

[Miss Mercedes]

That would explain why I didn't see it in the Manual! So I guess we're back to the start. What would cause the roof not to go to the second stage?

 

[AKSmart1]

Hey there,

hope all is well.

I noticed that you had an issue with your smart not going to the second stage for the convertible. Im having the same issue right now where the roof opens for first stage, and then when I hold the button for the second stage, it goes backwards and forwards and doesn’t do anything. The second stage the roof doesn’t fall down. I see in 2018 you had a similar issue abs just trying to understand how to fix it. I only have one motor as well. Any help/assistance would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you
Arkian

 

[Zmonsta]

hi @AKSmart1 , I also have the same issue with my new-to-me 2013. Were you able to get it fixed in the past two months? I started a couple threads about diagnosing the micro switches, but 150 views later, no one replied…

Hey there,

hope all is well.

I noticed that you had an issue with your smart not going to the second stage for the convertible. Im having the same issue right now where the roof opens for first stage, and then when I hold the button for the second stage, it goes backwards and forwards and doesn’t do anything. The second stage the roof doesn’t fall down. I see in 2018 you had a similar issue abs just trying to understand how to fix it. I only have one motor as well. Any help/assistance would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you
Arkian

 

[AKSmart1]

Hey @Zmonsta i haven’t been able to fix the problem. I did purchase another motor but having a hard time finding someone that would be able to look at this and fix it for me.

 

[Zmonsta]

@AKSmart1 , thanks for the update! It is crazy how little info is out there on the interweb or even in service manuals to diagnose this problem! I am certain mine is not due to the motors, as I tested the relays aren’t clicking over to power the two drop motors yet, so the issue is upstream of turning the motors, I am betting it is microswitch, but I need a smart car with a working top to test.. wish you luck!

 

[Jo e Lefors]

Zomnsta,
I'm sorry I couldn't help you any further.
What kind of experimental testing are you thinking of doing and a functioning convertible top?

 

[Zmonsta]

Hi @Jo e Lefors , thanks for following up with me! I would like to know at the end of stage 1 (ragtop opened), if the following two wires (wht/grn and blu/grn) are grounded out (sensor microswitches circuit closed). They are at the driver side behind the indented service panel under the drop-top motor. It is in the long detachable harness (x23/7) and reading need to be taken with the harness connected.

Thanks again!

btw: here is the other thread I started related to these microswitches

451 Cabriolet stage 2 drop top microswitch questions

I have searched all over this forum and the web, watched the related yt videos countless times. I have an issue where the top will not drop in stage 2. Stage 1 seems fine. Even pressing the top open button a second time does nothing except a click from SAM. I have a service manual and the wiring...

www.smartcarofamerica.com

 

[Jo e Lefors]

Hmm. I'm glad I asked.
Sorry, wiring schematics and blueprints are all Greek To Me.
Although me asking, did result in you posting what you would like to try. Maybe somebody with a little more electrical knowledge can help you.
Good luck

 

[Zmonsta]

Thanks @Jo e Lefors , yea no one have replied yet to that thread with 150+ views, not much help with similar question on Facebook group either.. thanks again for checking in!

 

[Jo e Lefors]

Well at least you can have two thirds of the roof open like a big sunroof.

The convertible top on smart cars appear to be very complex. 5 years ago when I bought my second smart convertible for $4,500. I knew full well, that if anything major happened with the car was disposable or what ever a junk yard would give me. There's no way I would go through the hassle of parting the car out and the shipping hassles.
Then again 95 % of the time, I drive my car with the top down. I guess I could just treat it as a roadster. I would have absolutely no use for the car if the top were stuck in the up position.
The only reason I have a smart is because it's a convertible.

 

[Zmonsta]

hi @AKSmart1 , I found the problem to my top issue and posted it in the thread linked below. Hope it helps you:

451 Cabriolet stage 2 drop top microswitch questions

I have searched all over this forum and the web, watched the related yt videos countless times. I have an issue where the top will not drop in stage 2. Stage 1 seems fine. Even pressing the top open button a second time does nothing except a click from SAM. I have a service manual and the wiring...

www.smartcarofamerica.com

Hey @Zmonsta i haven’t been able to fix the problem. I did purchase another motor but having a hard time finding someone that would be able to look at this and fix it for me.