[Melvin Long]

I was looking for a Fortwo to tow behind my motorhome. My dealer has two used ones - a 2005 diesel Passion with 95,057 km on it for $6988 Canadian and a 2012 gas Passion with 51,452 km for $7350 Canadian. I like the idea of the diesel with the power and gas mileage, but thought I would get some opinions. Diesels last a long time but that's quite a bit more miles. Any body have an opinion?

Diesel

Gas


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[Huronlad]

I would expect the gasser to be far more reliable. The cdi is about $2k too much.

 

[Mister_smart_LA]

I'd pick the CDi if it were my choice. Expect it to have much slower acceleration though, but much better fuel economy...

 

[Niteshooter]

Hmm I think the diesel is a bit over priced for Canada although it was a top of the line smart and I notice it even has the smart iPhone cradle, granted that has the old style plug so anything newer than an iPhone 4 won't work. (not sure if it can be adapted but from the look of the photo I would say not. It looks like it had a full brake job recently as the front callipers look brand new as do the rotors.

Does the gas smart come with another set of wheels and tires? Reason I ask is the Passion typically had aluminum wheels that look like what is on the diesel.

Did a quick look through auto trader for Alberta, these look interesting. Granted smarts seem to be quite expensive in your part of Canada.

2008 Smart Fortwo Passion | used cars & trucks | Calgary | Kijiji

2008 Smart Fortwo Convertible | used cars & trucks | Strathcona County | Kijiji

 

[Melvin Long]

Hmm I think the diesel is a bit over priced for Canada although it was a top of the line smart and I notice it even has the smart iPhone cradle, granted that has the old style plug so anything newer than an iPhone 4 won't work. (not sure if it can be adapted but from the look of the photo I would say not. It looks like it had a full brake job recently as the front callipers look brand new as do the rotors.

Does the gas smart come with another set of wheels and tires? Reason I ask is the Passion typically had aluminum wheels that look like what is on the diesel.

Did a quick look through auto trader for Alberta, these look interesting. Granted smarts seem to be quite expensive in your part of Canada.



The one in Calgary looks interesting. I noticed some hub caps somewhere for the one in Lethbridge. The phone cradle can be taken off I think. Probably don't make a new one but it's not important. $6988 C is $5187 US. Don't know if that makes a difference. I always thought diesels were more expensive and last a lot longer than gas cars. The diesel gets 47 mpg and the gas about 30-35?


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[Niteshooter]

The one in Calgary looks interesting. I noticed some hub caps somewhere for the one in Lethbridge. The phone cradle can be taken off I think. Probably don't make a new one but it's not important. $6988 C is $5187 US. Don't know if that makes a difference. I always thought diesels were more expensive and last a lot longer than gas cars. The diesel gets 47 mpg and the gas about 30-35?

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I'm down in Toronto so was working it through in Canadian Dollars. I have noticed down here that smart prices have been on the rise the past couple of months which I find interesting.

 

[Mister_smart_LA]

The cdi has higher quality components, look at the fit and finish. It's a higher end econo vehicle. Some of the expense you will dish out in upfront costs, higher replacement parts costs, but you can get much of it back with its stellar and untouchable fuel economy too... the more miles you drive it the more you will save. If you are a low mileage driver, it's probably not worth the extra expense...

 

[Huronlad]

I had to spend $1500+ a year to keep my cdi on the road, starter replacement, alternator replacement, turbo replacement, suspension repairs. Without a newer thermostat it runs too cold in the winter, at times not enough heat to even keep the windows defrosted. There are also wiring deficiencies that would need to be dealt with if you intent to keep the car for any length on time.

This year I had to make the first repair on my 2011, the alternator failed. Total cost around $600.

Fuel mileage doesn't make up for the added expense of repairs.

 

[Mister_smart_LA]

I had to spend $1500+ a year to keep my cdi on the road, starter replacement, alternator replacement, turbo replacement, suspension repairs. Without a newer thermostat it runs too cold in the winter, at times not enough heat to even keep the windows defrosted. There are also wiring deficiencies that would need to be dealt with if you intent to keep the car for any length on time.

This year I had to make the first repair on my 2011, the alternator failed. Total cost around $600.

Fuel mileage doesn't make up for the added expense of repairs.

I don't doubt at all that the maintenance and parts cost will be higher, but all your issues are an aberration. Suspension doesn't act up simply because it's a diesel, a thermostat doesn't either, turbo's usually fail due to a domino effect of oil circulation or cooling issues, and the alternator is not going to fail because it's a diesel. Do I expect higher maintenance costs? You betcha.

I'll even go as far to say if you are an owner who relies on a mechanic to inform and diagnose everything on the car, even the most basic issues, to perhaps choose the gas over the cdi. But any owner who can readily and easily determine the source of vehicle malfunction? To me it's a no brainer. CDi for the mechanically inclined folks all day.

 

[Huronlad]

Amused by your ignorance of the 450. Alternator lives at the bottom of the engine, fails early, seizes up easily. OE suspension is too frail for North American roads, springs break very easily. Current draw for headlights and fuel pump causes wiring to melt at the SAM. The OE thermostat are known to leak from new and opens below 80 C, too cold for a diesel in the winter. My turbo leaked from 80k km to 190k when it failed completely. Many turbos do not last for 190k km. The EGR valves are problematic for cars run short distances. All the known issues of the 450 cdi are well documented on clubsmartcar.

 

[Mister_smart_LA]

Amused by your ignorance of the 450. Alternator lives at the bottom of the engine, fails early, seizes up easily. OE suspension is too frail for North American roads, springs break very easily. Current draw for headlights and fuel pump causes wiring to melt at the SAM. The OE thermostat are known to leak from new and opens below 80 C, too cold for a diesel in the winter. My turbo leaked from 80k km to 190k when it failed completely. Many turbos do not last for 190k km. The EGR valves are problematic for cars run short distances. All the known issues of the 450 cdi are well documented on clubsmartcar.

I'll fix it. Bring one to me.

 

[Melvin Long]

So I decided on a 2008 Passion convertible. 55,000 km, loaded gasoline for $6500.

Seems great going to Calgary on Saturday to get it.


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[Mike T]

Probably the better choice for a toad. I don't think the 450 can be safely flat towed anyway.

The wiring deficiencies in the 450 are inexcusable, a case of low-bidder cheapness and crap engineering. With respect to the other issues, I have been very fortunate in my 450 cdi ownership. The first one I had was ultra cheap to run for the 155,000 miles that I had it.

 

[Melvin Long]

So I was going to get a trailer to haul my new car home from Calgary. They said the trailer would need brakes with that weight. My pick up isn't rigged for brakes, so I'm going to have the girl drive it down with her boyfriend in a different car. Would this need brakes when towed behind the motorhome?

 

[Melvin Long]

So, this is called a Passion Cabriolet I think? Does anyone know if it's considered a 450, 451, or what? Is it possible to get a key cut from anywhere but a Mercedes dealer? Can you switch the radio for one with bluetooth?

 

[Johannesl]

Does anyone know if it's considered a 450, 451, or what?

its a 451.

Can you switch the radio for one with bluetooth?

Yes, with a wiring kit and dash kit sold at most car audio places and online







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[Melvin Long]

Hitch and color

The shop in my town wants $3800 to hook up a Blue Ox towbar for me. This seem high? Can anyone tell me what color mine is? I looked for the sticker that supposed to have the code on it, but it didn't have one.

 

[Huronlad]

Towing info is in the towing section.

smart Towing - Smart Car Forums

 

[Miss Mercedes]

The wiring deficiencies in the 450 are inexcusable, a case of low-bidder cheapness and crap engineering.

If anything, Kane's adventures at Evilution is a testament to this. The roadster leaks more water than a boat with a hull of Swiss Cheese, the 450's petrol engine rebuilds were so common that there are repair shops dedicated to such a thing, and so on.

I'm a masochist though, so I'm totally going to own a 450 one day.

 

[Baldrick]

Not all the Roadsters do leak (but it's a common problem). I took the steps recommended on Evilution with mine, removed front hood, valance, & ventilation inlet, sealed round same & replaced. No evidence it had been leaking there but the consequences if it does are catastrophic - right over the 'SAM' unit. It's always kept in a garage apart from when on a trip anyway. The worst type of leak must be those where the water comes through the seams in the Tridion - fortunately mine doesn't seem to suffer from that.


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