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Sorry, I sent Cisco the wrong data, my fault on that. The US 451 will see an increase in power from 71 crank hp to 89-91 crank hp and about 18-22lbft tq.

We are still sorting out the website, and the guys doing the web work is not a car guy, again sorry.

To answer your questions of how we get there, simple, Smart left a lot on the table with the factory tuning. We adjust the fuel maps, along with the timing tables to make the 451 come to life. And Yes, in fact we did do the pcm and tcm of Larry's car. Now thats a different animal to say the least, but it was to prove a point. The engines seem to be able to take 8500 with no problems. But in truth, I would not drive my 451 beyond 7400-7600 on a daily basis.

At any rate sorry again for the confusion, but I think if you guys give it a shot, you will love it!......dyno
 

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Sorry, I sent Cisco the wrong data, my fault on that. The US 451 will see an increase in power from 71 crank hp to 89-91 crank hp and about 18-22lbft tq.

We are still sorting out the website, and the guys doing the web work is not a car guy, again sorry.

To answer your questions of how we get there, simple, Smart left a lot on the table with the factory tuning. We adjust the fuel maps, along with the timing tables to make the 451 come to life. And Yes, in fact we did do the pcm and tcm of Larry's car. Now thats a different animal to say the least, but it was to prove a point. The engines seem to be able to take 8500 with no problems. But in truth, I would not drive my 451 beyond 7400-7600 on a daily basis.

At any rate sorry again for the confusion, but I think if you guys give it a shot, you will love it!......dyno
Wow, good numbers. Something to consider. Regarding Larry's car, did you do a custom tune on his car? Or do you offer the same tune to all customers regardless of mods done?
 

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Larry's car is a custom on both the tcm and pcm. Larry did not want to change all the work he did on his piggy back for the larger injectors and such, so we left the fuel maps alone and moved the timing around, while raising the limiters.

The TCM for him was a bit of a challange. The normal reflash is like 25% faster, and a quicker clutch action, but we are trying to get his in the 50% range to compilment the turbo set up. We are inching up on that one, in Larry's case.

As far as can the trans handle it, we have been beating the hell out of our two test mules her at the shop for the past year with no problems. And out European Partner has been runing the 450 for two years with no problems. Remember, as far as the clutch gos, its the slip that kills the disks, and the heat from the slip that kills the pressure plate. So as we remove the lag times, the slip gos down, ect,ect

dyno
 

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But what about the tranny? Can it handle it?
Oh trust me.. the stock transmission and clutch can definitely handle it.. if it couldn't i would have blown something up by now as I click in at over 30,000 miles with the turbo installed at 18,000 and have done some really wicked abuse to the car...

The tune I'll be offering is not available at this very moment but hopefully within the next few weeks as being the ginny pig I want to offer my customer (turbo or not) something that is more out of the ordinary but of course I need to make sure it works and test it on my own vehicle first ;)

But as this thread does belong to Cisco I dont want to hi jack it :)

Larry
 

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Those prices aren't bad! I'd like to see the Dyno sheets.
http://www.dptune.com/dpt_009.htm

Note that CV (France)=PS (Germany) = .98632 HP (US) Also, it doesn't say if the ECU is the only mod, or if the intake and exhaust have been optimized.

Since the dyno shows a maximum stock hp of 60.5 @ about 5750 rpm, and the factory says 70 hp, the dyno loss amounts to .864 x HP. Or, multiply the dyno (wheel) hp by 1.157 to get a crank estimate comparable to the stock 70 hp.

I'm seeing 69 CV @ 5000 rpm. 69 / .98632 = 69.96 HP at the wheels.
69.96 x 1.157 = 80.95 hp at the crank.

To determine torque, T= 5250 x HP / RPM (at the specified HP)

T= 5250 x 80.95 / 5000 = 85.0 lb-ft TQ

That seems pretty high to me, but I'll bet it's a couple of percent on the high side due to European octane levels we can't get here. (And you poor guys on the west coast can't get over 91...)

Let's say: Stock- 70 hp, 68 ft-lb tq

DPTune- 81 hp, 85 ft-lb tq increases = +11 hp, +17 ft-lb

Ok, I'll bite. The torque increase is pretty high... how can a remap gain 22 HP & 75 Ft/LB???
It can on a 2 liter turbo motor, but not on a 1 liter n/a motor.

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html

These guys are the premier software tuner in the world for VW/Audi/Porsche products. APR does not have a "tuning partner" in Europe. They do tuning for the factory. Look at what they do for a 2.5 liter nonturbo:

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_mkv25l.html

+10 horsepower, +12 ft/lbs TQ on 91 octane? On an engine 2.5 times as large as the smart...

+11 hp, +17 ft/lbs on super high octane fuel might be a reasonable claim. I don't want to knock the flash. It's reasonably priced. But this community has been through "wonder chip" claims way before these vendors are around. BTW, is dynotronics1 a paid vendor, or is he able to hawk his product for free on th coattails of SmartCarPerformance?

Kadeem???

The numbers you see are from the flywheel. This is the European point of view.
:bullsht:

Sorry, I sent Cisco the wrong data, my fault on that. The US 451 will see an increase in power from 71 crank hp to 89-91 crank hp and about 18-22lbft tq
Oh, really? Thanks.

We are still sorting out the website, and the guys doing the web work is not a car guy, again sorry.
Does that really matter? Aren't you the car guy, and if so shouldn't you be able to cite the right numbers off the top of your head? After all, you've been tuning these things for a year, right?

What really matters is how the car feels after the boxes are flashed. It won't feel close to a turbocharged or 'busa swap car, so why throw up a bunch of numbers unobtainable in the real world?

It may seem like I want to beat this into the ground, but that's not the case. The community has had a few bad experiences with ecu tuners not being up front, or trying to use skewed numbers to impress people. That's why you can't find any posts pertaining to Velocity Tuning, or "Dino". They were removed. And if you look at the postings by "Andy Kahn" it shows the guy has made 28 posts, but there are only 8 to be seen. The rest were removed as a result of the "Velocity Tuning incident".

A good product will sell itself. I hope this turns out to be one of them.
 

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I'm very interested in this topic but inexperienced, so I'm happy to stand by and see where the chips fall...

Orville Redenbacher should be a supporting vendor. :D


Timo
 

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Smart 451

Note that CV (France)=PS (Germany) = .98632 HP (US) Also, it doesn't say if the ECU is the only mod, or if the intake and exhaust have been optimized.

Since the dyno shows a maximum stock hp of 60.5 @ about 5750 rpm, and the factory says 70 hp, the dyno loss amounts to .864 x HP. Or, multiply the dyno (wheel) hp by 1.157 to get a crank estimate comparable to the stock 70 hp.

I'm seeing 69 CV @ 5000 rpm. 69 / .98632 = 69.96 HP at the wheels.
69.96 x 1.157 = 80.95 hp at the crank.

To determine torque, T= 5250 x HP / RPM (at the specified HP)

T= 5250 x 80.95 / 5000 = 85.0 lb-ft TQ

That seems pretty high to me, but I'll bet it's a couple of percent on the high side due to European octane levels we can't get here. (And you poor guys on the west coast can't get over 91...)

Let's say: Stock- 70 hp, 68 ft-lb tq

DPTune- 81 hp, 85 ft-lb tq increases = +11 hp, +17 ft-lb



It can on a 2 liter turbo motor, but not on a 1 liter n/a motor.

APR 2.0TSI - APR ECU Upgrade

These guys are the premier software tuner in the world for VW/Audi/Porsche products. APR does not have a "tuning partner" in Europe. They do tuning for the factory. Look at what they do for a 2.5 liter nonturbo:

APR 2.5L ECU Upgrade

+10 horsepower, +12 ft/lbs TQ on 91 octane? On an engine 2.5 times as large as the smart...

+11 hp, +17 ft/lbs on super high octane fuel might be a reasonable claim. I don't want to knock the flash. It's reasonably priced. But this community has been through "wonder chip" claims way before these vendors are around. BTW, is dynotronics1 a paid vendor, or is he able to hawk his product for free on th coattails of SmartCarPerformance?

Kadeem???



:bullsht:



Oh, really? Thanks.



Does that really matter? Aren't you the car guy, and if so shouldn't you be able to cite the right numbers off the top of your head? After all, you've been tuning these things for a year, right?

What really matters is how the car feels after the boxes are flashed. It won't feel close to a turbocharged or 'busa swap car, so why throw up a bunch of numbers unobtainable in the real world?

It may seem like I want to beat this into the ground, but that's not the case. The community has had a few bad experiences with ecu tuners not being up front, or trying to use skewed numbers to impress people. That's why you can't find any posts pertaining to Velocity Tuning, or "Dino". They were removed. And if you look at the postings by "Andy Kahn" it shows the guy has made 28 posts, but there are only 8 to be seen. The rest were removed as a result of the "Velocity Tuning incident".

A good product will sell itself. I hope this turns out to be one of them.

You make good points, and to our failing all I can say is the smart is not our main focus. We do tons of Mazda, Porsche, and Mercedes work. And in truth it keeps me running like a headless chicken.

This is why we are offering the remaps at the price AND with a money back deal. I'm not positive, but I don't think you will find anyone else giving that offer. The point is, try it, we are damn sure you will like it, and you will tell your friends.

As far as APR ; lets just say you are talking different animals here. The VAG stuff is tuned pretty damn well from the factory, as is say Porsche, BMW, Mazda, ect,ect. Point is, the Smarts were de-tuned for the US. We have way more to play with to get what we want.

BTW, the sheets on the website are a stock 451 on a rototest dyno done in europe

Look, you are correct, its all about how the car feels when we are done. We offered several time to remap someones car for costs to show the forum members what we could do. For my trouble what I got was a stern warning from the admin. We are willing to put our money where our mouth is, and since you seem to be the guy with the biggest questions, how about a test? Willing to give it a try?

We don't know everything about the smarts, but we have a good reputation with the rest of the makes that we remap. we are always willing to learn from our mistakes.................Dyno
 

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We are willing to put our money where our mouth is, and since you seem to be the guy with the biggest questions, how about a test? Willing to give it a try? .................Dyno
If you are looking for a Beta tester, I'd be willing. What is the turn around time?

PM me if you want....

geosynch
 

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If you are looking for a Beta tester, I'd be willing. What is the turn around time?

PM me if you want....

geosynch
I've been the beta tester but your free to take my car out for a spin geosynch! When are you free to come out on our drives? xD... still haven't seen u since I turbocharged my car! The turn around time is one business day for him, plus the time to ship to him and get it back.

Larry
 

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"We are willing to put our money where our mouth is, and since you seem to be the guy with the biggest questions, how about a test? Willing to give it a try?"

He does not have a smart.
 
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