[JoeyPinball]

Greetings!
I've been looking into a more economical vehicle lately. My 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe has been netting me about 17mpg in the 10 miles each way to and from work and it's bugging me. I always liked Smarts, but I never seriously considered one before because I occasionally carry big heavy objects (pinball machines) that are hard to fit in such a car (though it's been done!). I'd also never seriously considered electric as a viable option because I periodically take 100+ mile each way trips. However, I'm thinking that if I were to pick up a Smart ED for my regular DD and have something like an old Ford Ranger on the side for when I need it, it would probably still be cheaper than the Santa Fe.
My jaw hit the floor when I saw the resale prices on the electric drives! $5500 for a 2014 Coupe with 14,000 miles? GTFO!

Is there a good reason for the steep depreciation that I'm not seeing?

Thanks!
Joe

 

[Huronlad]

Welcome to sCOA.

Several conversations about used ED in the ED section.

smart fortwo Electric Drive - Smart Car Forums

 

[jzchen]

Battery Assurance Plan, aka BAP. It is a lease on the battery that may need to be transferred to the knew "owner", of the "sled".

 

[Blaine]

Take what you spend on gasoline and divide by four or five. Factor in a brake flush and about $50 for a filter and desiccant cartridge every two years.

You'll save even more.

 

[10470]

Virtually all electric cars depreciate quickly, except for possibly Tesla. Most first buyers have leased them, with the understanding that rapid technology advances would likely make a three-year-old model somewhat obsolete by the end of its lease term. There are some great deals to be had.

 

[smark]

I notice, with all current used EV's out there. Extreme vehicle depredation. Lots of Tesla, BMW i3's and Nissan Leaf, are sold in our city. Charging station everywhere. Even at our large parks.

The issue with smarts, Fiat 500 EV's. Where do you go for service? Fuel is extremely cheap here. There really isn't a need for one. The EV technology is changing fast. Driving range is increasing. I can wait. Lots a good deals out there, on used ones. I'd take out a extended warranty, on a preowned. If your interested in buying one. If it breaks out of warranty, going to be expensive to repair.

 

[Blaine]

The issue with smarts, Fiat 500 EV's. Where do you go for service? Fuel is extremely cheap here. There really isn't a need for one.

Assuming it is required, MB will service the Smarts for years to come. They have with all of their other vehicles.

Electricity remains about 80% cheaper than gasoline. If that's not material and valuable to the consumer, why not do a quick poll and ask your neighbours if they'd like to save that money? I'm pretty sure you'll get more than 80% of them to say they'd like it.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "need", but EVs are valuable for being cheaper and being good for the environment. We all breathe the air.

The EV technology is changing fast. Driving range is increasing. I can wait. Lots a good deals out there, on used ones. I'd take out a extended warranty, on a preowned. If your interested in buying one. If it breaks out of warranty, going to be expensive to repair.

This is more a question of risk management, and the risks are low. Do EVs have fewer things to go wrong? Yes. So they automatically have a lower risk of requiring service. And in the specific case of the ED, it shares the bulk of its moving parts with the ICE smart (bearings, steering, brakes, suspension). So if you think that those parts are going to be a problem for the ED, they're also going to be a problem for the ICE smarts. Could an ED battery fail? Sure. Could an ICE engine fail badly and need replacement? Sure. What are the real chances though? The ED is a low risk purchase, especially if it does what you need, saves you money, and the price is depressed because people propagate FUD.

 

[smark]

Assuming it is required, MB will service the Smarts for years to come. They have with all of their other vehicles.

Electricity remains about 80% cheaper than gasoline. If that's not material and valuable to the consumer, why not do a quick poll and ask your neighbours if they'd like to save that money? I'm pretty sure you'll get more than 80% of them to say they'd like it.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "need", but EVs are valuable for being cheaper and being good for the environment. We all breathe the air.



This is more a question of risk management, and the risks are low. Do EVs have fewer things to go wrong? Yes. So they automatically have a lower risk of requiring service. And in the specific case of the ED, it shares the bulk of its moving parts with the ICE smart (bearings, steering, brakes, suspension). So if you think that those parts are going to be a problem for the ED, they're also going to be a problem for the ICE smarts. Could an ED battery fail? Sure. Could an ICE engine fail badly and need replacement? Sure. What are the real chances though? The ED is a low risk purchase, especially if it does what you need, saves you money, and the price is depressed because people propagate FUD.

Where do you think electricity comes from. Natural gas the main provider, and dirty coal. Nuclear power, solar, and wind next in our City. I can fill my little smart car with 8 gallons of fuel. Drive to the next major city. 2 1/2 hours later. Still have 1/4 tank fuel left. How about you in your little EV. The only EV on the market, I would be willing to purchase is the new Chevy Bolt. It has the range, dealer service network. Then add Tesla roof shingles to my home. Powering my car and home.

A EV, has a lot of expensive high tech components, that can fail. Don't kid yourself. Only a expert technician can repair. Very few capable shops can repair.

 

[Blaine]

Where do you think electricity comes from. Natural gas the main provider, and dirty coal. Nuclear power, solar, and wind next in our City. I can fill my little smart car with 8 gallons of fuel. Drive to the next major city. 2 1/2 hours later. Still have 1/4 tank fuel left. How about you in your little EV. The only EV on the market, I would be willing to purchase is the new Chevy Bolt. It has the range, dealer service network. Then add Tesla roof shingles to my home. Powering my car and home.

A EV, has a lot of expensive high tech components, that can fail. Don't kid yourself. Only a expert technician can repair. Very few capable shops can repair.

The whole power source argument is pretty dead. And dead wrong. For example, your state has shown one of the highest rates of improvement in GHG reduction by shutting down coal generation. Any EV driven there and charged on grid is getting at *least* 42-50 MPG in terms of power plant emissions relative to an ICE car. For the VAST majority of car owners in the US the rates are more like 75-95 MPG. For places where the grid generation approaches 100% clean, EVs are 100% GHG free, and renewables are the fastest growing segment for power generation. The folks in Texas are laughing all the way from their wind turbines to the bank.

Here are the 2014 stats so you can check: New Numbers Are In and EVs Are Cleaner Than Ever - Union of Concerned Scientists

I'm happy with our ED, it does 99% of our driving, but certainly if you need longer range you should buy a Bolt. It will save you a ton of money. Although your personal need to drive 100's of miles on a regular basis doesn't change the value proposition for the typical car owner. Who drives less than 35 miles per day. Well within the range of the Smart ED.

I'm willing to take the maintenance risk on our ED. When was the last time a gas engine ran without maintenance for decades? My AC furnace motor is still working after 25 years. No special technicians required...

 

[MB DNA]

Only a expert technician can repair.

Yup, it's just another "purpose built" major electric appliance . . .

 

[Miss Mercedes]

The whole power source argument is pretty dead. And dead wrong.

I wouldn't say that. The whole situation is reliant on so many variables. Just a few factors: The damage caused to the planet making the batteries, where you live, how your grid works (I live practically next door to a notoriously dirty coal-fired station any most of my energy comes from there), politics, and so on.

Here's a map of what were looking at right now as far as the "whole package" factory to the road. From a very reliable source:

Electric Vehicles: Just How Green Are They? | Union of Concerned Scientists

In central states, you might be better off getting a hybrid than an EV and in most states, EVs are just about on par with the best hybrids of the past 5 years or so.

So, I'm going to say what I always say here: Folks should just buy the car that fits them the best and leave it at that. Some of us love to rock the awesome ED, some of us roll with the equally awesome ICE. Some of us are lucky enough to have both!

 

[smark]

If I were to purchase a used EV. I still look into a extended warranty. The drive unit its self can run around $6K. Transaxle $5k. Inverter assembly $5.6k. Battery charger, $1.7k. Controller another $6k. Plus labor. Let's find a qualified service tech. Haven't touch the price of a new battery. You can buy a used ICE engine, for $3-4. Install it a day.

Just drive it till it breaks. Make it into a large yard artwork piece.

 

[Johannesl]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but for some people electric drives make sense. I, myself, want to get an ED (as a secondary car) because of 2 reasons.

1. I have enough solar panels on my roof that overproduce my household needs 9 out of 12 months, (and the other 3 months I have enough reserve built up in kW hours to still not have an electric bill) so it would be powered primarily through solar power.

2. My daily commute is only 42-60 miles, so range fits fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[halfcack]

To 90% of you, who have been a great group of people to be with, the parts in between will not make sense, yet having a goal so low, that I may not have the seconds left to complete it, is funny, not serious, funny and please don't overthink this.

Here are three parts encompassing what I think I have left. Don't overthink this. You will hear this phrase several times. I am not a genius nor a really stupid person but I have done some ridiculously stupid things. I have come to the end of where I want to be. This will be stupid, I don't think I have enough time left to lease my gas 2016 Passion lease to someone and either buy or lease a 2018 ED.

I have done all I've wanted to do, to the best of my ability, not coming from wealth, nor a jealous thought for such, a bottom middle class person, when their was one.

70 seeming to be that number, I may never get a chance to own a Smart ED, which is the last. albeit so, wow, low on a graph, what a goal, having accoumplished all to one point or another, I was a musician most of my life, while working a day job, yet sometimes, being able to be a complete self sustaining road musician. This helped with the goal orientation.

I have done all I wanted to do in life. The strange part, no wealth, sometimes barely getting by and most of my life as a musician. Nothing weirded out, concerning normal people, however, we were brought up as a cohesive, fiercely independent, never give up neither wanting to harm anyone nor be harmed.

Second which I know not of.

I think most of the depreciation comes from the gov exempts which make it look like garbage at the end on the used lots because most of the costs were paid. I don't know about that either. I read just this week, please don't buy an electric car from me. I lose $14,500.

I'll stick with what I think I know. Hydrogen is brought up every year. I doubt if any car manuafacturer would take a chance because of the history, involving hydrogen, as good for the "planet" it is.

The black and white film of that era sticks in everyone's mind. The past years of being killed by an airbag, having the knowledge that my particular make and model prior to my Smart had murdered several people and sold as defective to me never mentioning this fact which wii be present to my last breath.

Third, almost totally fantasy. However, do not overthink it.

Facts I think I know I either have no information or think I have information on the subject which may be withheld or not.

No matter how much wealthy people made on oil, in the last 80-100 years, I'll take a real leap and truly believe those times are almost nearly at an end.

I am not a conspiracy nut but once was and will never be again.

Quite possibly, the oil left in the earth is a lot lower that we are being told.

Although one might use the argument, there is more and and more found everyday, I believe only our Earth is naturally capable for a time such as this, to re-balance the supply remaining throughout the earth.

I know this sounds silly, is silly and far from any probable tangible eveidence I have. I don't believe it but It is just a gut feeling of mine and mine alone.

A deep look into my life. A final decision which no one is entitled to, but myself, certainly not harmful for anyone including myself and hopefully not considered hubris.

I believe we are going in the right direction. President Trump pulled the rip cord on earth warming, that doesn't bother me but there are many, most probably, 50/50 who may be looking for other lines of work, each of us coming to a reality, uh, oh'.

Spending one's entire life on scientific "theories," remembering, a theory is a notion that is put forth without any basis to back it up. I am actually happy to be happy, not fighting with myself, with how many seconds I may have left at 70 years old arguing a theory which I have held in vain and will never be free of.

Things are strange to me since President Trump. I feel settled, peaceful, older, maybe a little more mature.

I know I can not change, adapt, solutionize and I am incapable of changing the past or the future. It almost seems again, only my gut feel, we are close to the finish line. That's as far as we should take that, it really doesn't belong in this post

We all have beliefs. It's best we don't discuss them on this forum. Whether it's a drop or a gallon, there will be enough to get finished whatever has to done.

The idea of a coal car is just my sense of humor.

When I looked specifically for some solid news on a release date, I was happy with what I found. The thread posed much information and started a thought process.

It all goes back to this last sentence leaving all else out. Wow, I would love to drive, lease or own a 2018 Smart ED as soon at one is available.

Thank you all for putting up with this and I have never met a group of people devoted to a piece of elegant machinery!

 

[Blaine]

Here's a map of what were looking at right now as far as the "whole package" factory to the road. From a very reliable source:

Electric Vehicles: Just How Green Are They? | Union of Concerned Scientists

...2009 data map...

In central states, you might be better off getting a hybrid than an EV and in most states, EVs are just about on par with the best hybrids of the past 5 years or so.

Unfortunately that's the 2009 data, which is almost a decade out of date. Here's the more current 2014 data, from the same source. As you can see the numbers are substantially better.

There is *no* state in the US where driving an EV is not already the absolutely cleanest option, regardless of your grid power source.

 

[Blaine]

If I were to purchase a used EV. I still look into a extended warranty. The drive unit its self can run around $6K. Transaxle $5k. Inverter assembly $5.6k. Battery charger, $1.7k. Controller another $6k. Plus labor. Let's find a qualified service tech. Haven't touch the price of a new battery. You can buy a used ICE engine, for $3-4. Install it a day.

Just drive it till it breaks. Make it into a large yard artwork piece.

Those numbers are just silly. An entire working, used ED is 6-8k USD. If some wanker tries to charge you that kind of money, just buy another used ED.

 

[Miss Mercedes]

Unfortunately that's the 2009 data, which is almost a decade out of date. Here's the more current 2014 data, from the same source. As you can see the numbers are substantially better.

There is *no* state in the US where driving an EV is not already the absolutely cleanest option, regardless of your grid power source.

My map is from the same site from an article dated December 2016. The map is newer (the filename is even dated 2016) and if looked closely, also has higher numbers in many areas and lower numbers in others. Also, if the context of the article I posted is considered, it should be known that the two maps aren't even measuring the same thing.

Either way, the blue map also contradicts that final statement. With an entire state only pulling 38mpg and a number of other central states struggling to meet or surpass the mid 40s, then yes, there are at least a handful of states in which getting a hybrid or economy car would be cleaner than an EV. Heck, an ICE smart can beat 38!

And remember, I am pro-EV and pro-smart ED, so I'm never going to tell anyone not to get an EV. At the same time I also don't care if someone chooses an ICE. Just buy whatever your heart says is right. <3

 

[SuperSmartie]

map

And keep in mind that's just when you use the mix of suppliers from your utilities "standard service". Many areas allow you to choose what generators to source your electricity from. I'm buying wind power, so I get infinite mpg equivalents! (still don't know why we're talking mpgs for EVs, but hey, if it works for the ICE folks to compare...)

Not much choice when you have an ICE, maybe you can use ethanol in some places, but that's worse than dino-juice on the CO2 emissions if you consider the enormous energy expense to produce it.

 

[Miss Mercedes]

I wish I had that option. I'd do it simply to have a greener source of energy. I live in an apartment mostly fueled by coal (the unfortunate byproduct of the local utilities deciding green energy is too expensive and would eat into profits) and the stuff's expensive in the winter. The meter readers are lazy too and only read the building's meter instead of each individual unit (those meters are literally in the same room and there are only like 20 of them). So while I conserve so much energy my bill is insane because my neighbours are so wasteful.

If I had an efficient way of charging I would likely have a smart ED of some kind by now, though sadly apartment complexes in the local area aren't what you'd call 'progressive' (these are people who will threaten eviction over 40 cents) and don't even have basic outdoor outlets.

 

[parimento1]

I would venture to say many Smart EDs will end up parked on the street in very urban areas (NY, Chicago, etc). Where will the owners charge them? I know there are charging stations in many urban areas, but who wants to wait 2.5 hours to drive ~60 miles. Also, some places charge you the hourly rate to park there while your car charges. I doubt electric cars will catch on for awhile, and I see Smart pulling out of the US market completely, when they sell only a handful of electric vehicles.