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GoSmart, am I to understand that you have a solution to the issue with the HV battery being un-chargeable due the the 12V battery issue? How much do you charge for this service?
solved any problem with Smart ED, price depends on error, you can ask me in WhatsApp +380931130000
 

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Vediamo (MB engineer software), SDconnect C4 multiplexer, and about 4-6 wire leads adapted directly to the external BMS 32-pin connector, plus power and ground is what the pictures seem to show.

So is this all that is required- or is pcb bench connection via JTAG or BOOTMODE etc needed ???????
(it seems logical the the firmware can be externally flashed to the bms chip in the case of updates)...

I'll continue to experiment with the bms focusing my efforts on the pinout (schematic) of the 32-pin external connector... for now. In my case I'm not ready to ship off and spend money on the bms yet as I have one cell in the middle module that is suspect. At this point I do not plan to take any chances with swapping individual cells, will probably have to find & buy a used hv pack (or 31s module) ...and maybe I'll get lucky and find a pack that still has a good bms.
 

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I'm not reading all 482 posts, so forgive if this is a repeat: the rumor is that you tow the Smart EV with your foot on the brake. This fools the charging system to do regenerative braking, thus charging up the big battery. It's just a rumor from Germany. What can you lose besides your dignity?

Cheers,

Ne Plus Ultra
 

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I'm not reading all 482 posts, so forgive if this is a repeat: the rumor is that you tow the Smart EV with your foot on the brake. This fools the charging system to do regenerative braking, thus charging up the big battery. It's just a rumor from Germany. What can you lose besides your dignity?

Cheers,

Ne Plus Ultra
Well isn't that interesting...hmm
 

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The owner's manual says it's ok to tow wheels down under 40mph under 40 miles, and there are youtube videos of people towing other evs including the newer smart eq to charge them, successfully. But after having a look at the contactors inside the battery, I have a hard time believing that tow charging will work for a hv bricked (~0 volts, bms error codes and/or associated contactors open) situation. But I would love to be proved wrong/... It might, perhaps be worthwhile in an a different "HV Workshop" (dash error message) scenerio that doesn't involve fully discharged hv battery.
 

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Funny that the solution should be a old BMS file which is flashed with vediamo. Maybe a more update BMS Firmware file should work also.
If you do it right you may even not to take out from the car. As i understand, there is no reason for this. Also the jtag/BDM port is not necessary if you use the right tools :) to hide is never a good solution. By this reason i really appreciate your work. Maybe i could support you with my knowledge.
 

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Thank you Jmk for your input. It's not clear that go-smart-service posted a photo showing their whole process for their "fix", but IF it is flashed through vediamo, as you say - we still have to get a copy of the correct files/firmware, which may require a "good" bms on the bench and pin out of the bms connector... (or someone with more advance knowledge might be able to copy it through obd with vediamo or other software). Still slowly working on that angle myself trying to find a good battery/bms!

Anyone else have leads .....on the bms firmware file/s or the bms updated firmware "2016050005" / "UPDATE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM CONTROL UNIT SOFTWARE" ? .....on a method to "copy" this update while a car went to the dealer for this update? ....Or a pin out of the bms connector?
 

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Thank you Jmk for your input. It's not clear that go-smart-service posted a photo showing their whole process for their "fix", but IF it is flashed through vediamo, as you say - we still have to get a copy of the correct files/firmware, which may require a "good" bms on the bench and pin out of the bms connector... (or someone with more advance knowledge might be able to copy it through obd with vediamo or other software). Still slowly working on that angle myself trying to find a good battery/bms!

Anyone else have leads .....on the bms firmware file/s or the bms updated firmware "2016050005" / "UPDATE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM CONTROL UNIT SOFTWARE" ? .....on a method to "copy" this update while a car went to the dealer for this update? ....Or a pin out of the bms connector?
Maybe you can find few answers here http://eprints2.insa-strasbourg.fr/1243/1/GE5E-2012-ACQUAVIVA-Thesis.pdf
 

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The link above has a partial pinout of the bms on the diagram on page 17, (very hard to decipher due to resolution!), it would be great to find the original document it (presumably) came from "Preliminary Technical Customer Information; SB LiMotive; 2011" or I would think the MB service software/"manual" should have these wiring diagrams somewhere. Thank you for posting, lots of other interesting info there




63191
 

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Yes really interesting information. i searched for a long time for a schematics of the internal Battery.

Also the Software framework of the CAN Bus is very promising
 

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solved any problem with Smart ED, price depends on error, you can ask me in WhatsApp +380931130000
Hello everyone,

Read entire thread... I have a 2014 Bricked ED... I am a systems engineer for nearly 30 years...

GoSmart, interested to communicate with you... "Solved any problem with Smart ED, price depends on error, you can ask me in WhatsApp +380931130000"

My Codes are:

P1614FA --"Control unit: internal fault initialization was unsuccessful."
And:
U01A000 --"CAN communication with the internal control unit for monitoring the battery cells (A) is faulty."
U01A100 --"CAN communication with the internal control unit for monitoring the battery cells (B) is faulty."
U01A200 --"CAN communication with the internal control unit for monitoring the battery cells (C) is faulty."

12v died but is recharged & new, but HV is bricked. Key lights up dash but can't drive.

Anybody have any ideas particular to the DAS codes I posted? Do they help any of you?

Thank you,

David.
 

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HV might be "bricked" but some/many individual cells can likely be massaged back to full charge. Do you have access to the cells?

VR
--
 

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He could not have access, as the internal CSE boards do not work by too low voltage of the blocks with each 31 cells.
So take out the battery of the car, open it and check the voltages. Charge the cells below 3,2V up to 3,4V and pay attention you pulled the connector of current sensor.
Afterwards the 4 failure should have disappeared. Problem could be the next would be the P18051c if you power the BMS with low cells. So first charge internally the cells before you power up the BMS again.
 

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Hi there everybody !
I just finished reading all 25 pages of this tread.

Im new here but like you guys, I am very motivated to figure out and share how to fix a bricked BMS for these cars. Its sad that once the 12V battery goes dead it kills a perfectly good HV battery. We have 4X smart ED and 2 have good batteries. I just sold 1 of my good batteries to a client and installed it in his car + did the hole activation with our DAS.

I now own my clients old HV battery which i purchased as a core. Originally the dead HV battery had the following codes
IMG_1184.jpg


Once I opened the HV battery all the cells were around 0.5V and I slowly charged to 3.3V over a week with the Shunt unplugged while monitoring temps.

IMG_1228.jpg


From my understanding, the CAN communications happens because the voltage is to low to the 3x (ABC) supervisory Sub BMS. Once they are charged enough the faults can be erased.

I am now only left with the P18051C Code which i am suspecting is the result of the BMS being bricked.

Battery is out of my car again for further diagnostic.

IMG_6159.jpg


I do not have experience with reprogramming firmware while a module is out of the car with K-TAG or others but im up for feedback and suggestions.

IMG_1281.jpg


Additionally if we find a solution to reprogram these I have a perfectly fine running Smart ED which i am willing to take apart the HV Battery a part in order to copy the good (Not Bricked) firmware and share it.

My thought process would be the following:

-To first put the "Bricked BMS in the good battery in the running car to confirm that the BMS is actually in bricked mode and that its not a measurement of the internal measurements that causes the BMS that causes the P18051C Code to show up or something in the 3 supervisory Sub BMS (ABC) .

-Next Install the Good BMS in the bad battery and install in the car and see if I can clear the codes and reactivate the HV system with my DAS.

Then that will confirm for me that the BMS is in bricked mode and nothing else is problematic. I might drop by MB with the good HV battery + bricked BMS to see if they would be able to install the 2016BMS update and hopefully it would reset the firmware (that would confirm even more).

Anybody have any thoughts on how to use K-TAG to flash the firmware ?
Cheers,
Jonathan
 

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Did you disconnect the current sensor before charging? JMK2020 above wrote "pull the connector to the current sensor" but from my reading of this thrad and threads in other fora, I thought that the current sensor had to be disconnected altogether from the bus bar.
 

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No, I only disconnected the connector that goes from the Shunt to the BMS. I saw no point in removing it since to me that shunt is just a glorified calibrated buss bar once the connector is unplugged ;).
 

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Hi there everybody !
I just finished reading all 25 pages of this tread.

Im new here but like you guys, I am very motivated to figure out and share how to fix a bricked BMS for these cars. Its sad that once the 12V battery goes dead it kills a perfectly good HV battery. We have 4X smart ED and 2 have good batteries. I just sold 1 of my good batteries to a client and installed it in his car + did the hole activation with our DAS.

I now own my clients old HV battery which i purchased as a core. Originally the dead HV battery had the following codes View attachment 63377

Once I opened the HV battery all the cells were around 0.5V and I slowly charged to 3.3V over a week with the Shunt unplugged while monitoring temps.

View attachment 63378

From my understanding, the CAN communications happens because the voltage is to low to the 3x (ABC) supervisory Sub BMS. Once they are charged enough the faults can be erased.

I am now only left with the P18051C Code which i am suspecting is the result of the BMS being bricked.

Battery is out of my car again for further diagnostic.

View attachment 63379

I do not have experience with reprogramming firmware while a module is out of the car with K-TAG or others but im up for feedback and suggestions.

View attachment 63380

Additionally if we find a solution to reprogram these I have a perfectly fine running Smart ED which i am willing to take apart the HV Battery a part in order to copy the good (Not Bricked) firmware and share it.

My thought process would be the following:

-To first put the "Bricked BMS in the good battery in the running car to confirm that the BMS is actually in bricked mode and that its not a measurement of the internal measurements that causes the BMS that causes the P18051C Code to show up or something in the 3 supervisory Sub BMS (ABC) .

-Next Install the Good BMS in the bad battery and install in the car and see if I can clear the codes and reactivate the HV system with my DAS.

Then that will confirm for me that the BMS is in bricked mode and nothing else is problematic. I might drop by MB with the good HV battery + bricked BMS to see if they would be able to install the 2016BMS update and hopefully it would reset the firmware (that would confirm even more).

Anybody have any thoughts on how to use K-TAG to flash the firmware ?
Cheers,
Jonathan
This tool can not read BMS.
if you need help, send me the unit, I can help you with clear error.
price is 500$
WhatsApp +380931130000
 

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Hey JonathanCRD,

you and the others should check there conversation are of ther profile :) Maybe i could help.
For K-TAG it depend on the version and if you own the option of the TriCore support.

@Yinzer: Jonathan is right with the current sensor. I even thought it is fake to take of the connector from the sensor, but when you take an llok in the blockdiagramme provided by the master thesis you will see, there is an option for a current loop, which maybe could kill the sensor if he is connected to the BMS.
So just plug it off will be sufficient.

For the discussed kill feature of the battery, there are several German which disconnected the 12V Battery and do not have an issue with empty HV Battery and killed cells.
So when you dig into Xentry and DAS and also the structure of the system you will realise, there is a feature which can switch on the contactor even the ignition is off.
This is done by monitoring the 12V bus by the N127. If the bus is brown out, the N127 wake up the HV-CAN and activate via BMS the contactor. This cause the DC/DC converter starts up and try to charge the 12V battery. This will empty or bring the battery to the lower limit. After you run easy in issues as some addtional load will cause that you start to empty the cells.
It seems the crash signal is also causing some issue with initiate a discharge via the balancing circuit. This is another rootcause.

Funny thing is that you could charge the car even with failure via a manual start via DAS. This could be down if you are not too deep with the stack voltage but below 3,0V of at least one cell prevent the normal charge by failure codes.

So if you have not an issue with an level 2 accident trigger the airbags and pyrofuse and you just take of the battery there should be only the minor measurement current of the CSE modules on the stack and no balancing cause a issue.
For me it seems also if the BMS is powered and you get the measurements with the killed stack the BMS enter the P18051C. So if you realise to be have an issue you should not check it with new installed 12V battery, as this will allow the BMS to realise the issue and store the P18051C. In this case first recharge the cells and then power up again the 12V. ;-)
 

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Hi there everybody !
I just finished reading all 25 pages of this tread.

Im new here but like you guys, I am very motivated to figure out and share how to fix a bricked BMS for these cars. Its sad that once the 12V battery goes dead it kills a perfectly good HV battery. We have 4X smart ED and 2 have good batteries. I just sold 1 of my good batteries to a client and installed it in his car + did the hole activation with our DAS.

I now own my clients old HV battery which i purchased as a core. Originally the dead HV battery had the following codes View attachment 63377

Once I opened the HV battery all the cells were around 0.5V and I slowly charged to 3.3V over a week with the Shunt unplugged while monitoring temps.

View attachment 63378

From my understanding, the CAN communications happens because the voltage is to low to the 3x (ABC) supervisory Sub BMS. Once they are charged enough the faults can be erased.

I am now only left with the P18051C Code which i am suspecting is the result of the BMS being bricked.

Battery is out of my car again for further diagnostic.

View attachment 63379

I do not have experience with reprogramming firmware while a module is out of the car with K-TAG or others but im up for feedback and suggestions.

View attachment 63380

Additionally if we find a solution to reprogram these I have a perfectly fine running Smart ED which i am willing to take apart the HV Battery a part in order to copy the good (Not Bricked) firmware and share it.

My thought process would be the following:

-To first put the "Bricked BMS in the good battery in the running car to confirm that the BMS is actually in bricked mode and that its not a measurement of the internal measurements that causes the BMS that causes the P18051C Code to show up or something in the 3 supervisory Sub BMS (ABC) .

-Next Install the Good BMS in the bad battery and install in the car and see if I can clear the codes and reactivate the HV system with my DAS.

Then that will confirm for me that the BMS is in bricked mode and nothing else is problematic. I might drop by MB with the good HV battery + bricked BMS to see if they would be able to install the 2016BMS update and hopefully it would reset the firmware (that would confirm even more).

Anybody have any thoughts on how to use K-TAG to flash the firmware ?
Cheers,
Jonathan
Hi there everybody !
I just finished reading all 25 pages of this tread.

Im new here but like you guys, I am very motivated to figure out and share how to fix a bricked BMS for these cars. Its sad that once the 12V battery goes dead it kills a perfectly good HV battery. We have 4X smart ED and 2 have good batteries. I just sold 1 of my good batteries to a client and installed it in his car + did the hole activation with our DAS.

I now own my clients old HV battery which i purchased as a core. Originally the dead HV battery had the following codes View attachment 63377

Once I opened the HV battery all the cells were around 0.5V and I slowly charged to 3.3V over a week with the Shunt unplugged while monitoring temps.

View attachment 63378

From my understanding, the CAN communications happens because the voltage is to low to the 3x (ABC) supervisory Sub BMS. Once they are charged enough the faults can be erased.

I am now only left with the P18051C Code which i am suspecting is the result of the BMS being bricked.

Battery is out of my car again for further diagnostic.

View attachment 63379

I do not have experience with reprogramming firmware while a module is out of the car with K-TAG or others but im up for feedback and suggestions.

View attachment 63380

Additionally if we find a solution to reprogram these I have a perfectly fine running Smart ED which i am willing to take apart the HV Battery a part in order to copy the good (Not Bricked) firmware and share it.

My thought process would be the following:

-To first put the "Bricked BMS in the good battery in the running car to confirm that the BMS is actually in bricked mode and that its not a measurement of the internal measurements that causes the BMS that causes the P18051C Code to show up or something in the 3 supervisory Sub BMS (ABC) .

-Next Install the Good BMS in the bad battery and install in the car and see if I can clear the codes and reactivate the HV system with my DAS.

Then that will confirm for me that the BMS is in bricked mode and nothing else is problematic. I might drop by MB with the good HV battery + bricked BMS to see if they would be able to install the 2016BMS update and hopefully it would reset the firmware (that would confirm even more).

Anybody have any thoughts on how to use K-TAG to flash the firmware ?
Cheers,
Jonathan
JonathanCRD,
Any luck clearing the P18051C code? With the travel restrictions lifting I hope to get back to my ED which has bricked while I was away due to a dead 12v battery. I plan to pull the battery and charge it but it seems we are all stuck with the P19051C code issue... sucks.
m-
 

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all stuck with the P19051C code issue... sucks.
Mcallender,
You should charge battery as soon as possible. Deep discharge will weakens cells. They can suffer suffer from self-discharge and increased internal resistance and make them unusable.
When you charge them on time they will stay permanently charged. Than you can calmly wait for the error codes to be resolved.
 
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