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If you can repeat the painful recharging steps, reconnect the battery in the morning, then take it to the other MB dealer. As far as I’m aware (from past experience) they can not see the other dealer’s work.....
 

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If you can repeat the painful recharging steps, reconnect the battery in the morning, then take it to the other MB dealer. As far as I’m aware (from past experience) they can not see the other dealer’s work.....

This might work. I would think that all the cells in your battery would show as healthy. Maybe that will get you further with a new dealer.
 

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Jon Renner, you may want to look into getting one of these devices (I have one):


https://www.openvehicles.com/


I bought one of these for my 2016 Smart ED and have been using it for several months. I primarily use it to monitor my charge levels since I share a charger with other coworkers at the office, but it also gives you the ability to scan and monitor the Canbus for various data frames.


By monitoring the Canbus you may be able to see what is happening at that 2 minute mark. See what is changing. I have not yet tried it but from what I understand, you can also manipulate Canbus settings via the tool. It's more than just a read-only view into your canbus.
 

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I've contacted the vendor for this product with this:

I'm interested in buying this OVMS kit (and whatever cables or other materials are necessary), but have a couple of questions. I plan to use this to RESET a HV battery failure error code in a 2013 Smart ED. I've removed the battery pack from the car, opened it, and charged all cells inside so that the total voltage of the pack is 337VDC. Even though this charge has held for nearly 36 hours when not connected to anything, when I connect the battery to the car, whether on a charger or not, it begins to discharge, losing 80% of its charge over 12 hours. I suspect that the HV fault error has triggered a soft discharge of the entire battery pack, even though the original cause of this fault has been remedied. I'd like to fix this. Would this kit help?

I'll post their response.
 

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Jon,

Do you have Jim Sokoloff's gadget for scanning the battery pack? This will allow you to check the voltage of every cell, and after a few charge-discharge cycles, the capacity of every cell via the OBD connector.

https://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f170/battery-test-units-available-152680/

Regarding the coolant system, it is not important for the battery pack because the rather low 1/5 C charging rate for US smarts does not generate any battery heat that matters, but, the cooling system loop also circulates through the on board charger which does generate a lot of heat and cooling for that IS important. So maybe the shutoff is charger overheating.

And regarding the SOC meter, you should not expect it to be working properly becasue it is a "coulomb counter" or ampere-hour counter and needs some kind of initial calibration preset to the "resurrected" pack's actual SOC. So the shutoff may also because the pack voltage has reached a maximum value. Alternatively, after being discharges so low, the cells internal charging resistance may be so high that the pack voltage is spiking under the normal rate of charge and a shutdown is occurring.

At any rate, the car's drive control and BMS syatem needs a complete reset using a dealer STAR syatem.

And I am really curious how much capacity is going to be left after such a punishing discharge. Normally, a lithium cell is considered ruined at least, if not a serious fire hazard, if it gets discharged below 2.5 volts.

Good luck!
 

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Thanks for the suggestion, though I'm not sure that just measuring the voltages of the cells will help much. When I had the battery pack apart, I had access to individual cells, and after charging each their cell voltages were clustered around 3.7V ... some as low as 3.56 and some a 3.82. After about 36 hours from the last charging I did, the total for the entire pack was ~334V, and this voltage remained stable until I re-installed the pack into the car. At that point, the SOC indicator indicated just a bit over the 20% "Reserve" range, and soon fell to about 5%.

I've found that if I plug in the Level 2 charger, it indicates that it's connected, but not charging. If I switch on the ignition, and then shut the ignition off, the car will charge for 2 minutes, and then the charger will switch off. If repeat this procedure, the car will again charge for 2 minutes. If I switch the ignition on, and leave it on, the car begin to charge, and will continue to charge for as long as I leave the ignition on ... but the SOC indicator never gets above about 7% ... even if left in this state overnight.

Although I'm not sure what the individual cell voltage is now ... or even the entire pack voltage now that the pack is installed in the car (as I don't have the device you mentioned) ... it seems evident that although the car's charger is engaged (I can hear it hum, and can see that the Siemens is delivering power to the car), something is consuming this charging energy. And I suspect that the BMS is still in its "suicide mode." You mentioned that the system needs to be reset by a STAR device, and I wonder if my local mechanic's device may be able to accomplish this ... or if it needs to be a MB shop that does it.

And another question. What do you think I should do with this car? It's just hard to believe that with all this nearly pristine hardware there isn't any option but the scrap heap ... or buying an over-priced and obsolete battery pack from MB. Is this really something that's worth "parting out?"
 

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You mentioned that the system needs to be reset by a STAR device, and I wonder if my local mechanic's device may be able to accomplish this ... or if it needs to be a MB shop that does it.
If anyone has a line on having a dealer or shop do this reset, I'd love to see if we could arrange to stash a CANBus sniffer in the car prior to the service and capture the CANbus traffic they use to do the reset. Probably easiest if the arrangement is above-board (with a willing 3rd party mechanic), but we could probably arrange it to be hidden in the car somewhere silently recording CAN traffic.
 

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If it’s charging AND discharging at the same time, I would guess it’s got to be producing some amount of heat somewhere? Through some sort of discharge resistor of sorts??? Have you investigated the pyro fuse area?
 

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And other HV experiences from around the ED world!

4/12/2014 from clubsmartcar Canada – Charging Issue (Drive Sys – Engine off) various comments and error codes

Invoice noted the following:

Fault codes in BMS – P07800 – the precharging time of the high-voltage on-board electrical system is too long.

P1B1700 – The overload protection of switch ‘Precharging’ of the high-voltage battery is active.

Included update information to tips case #611978862

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/28328-charging-issue/

by albiesmart (Amsterdam, NE) on clubsmartcar.com 10/14/2018 – I am new on this forum. Started to search the internet after having problems with my 2013 ED. I started to work in an other city beginning this year, at 50 km distance. Just too far away to do the out en return on one charge in winter with lights, heating and wipers on. So I used my Toyota Prius instead and put my Smart away in my garage, having 80% SOC. Last week I wanted to take it out but the 12V battery was flat. Connected another 12V battery with jump leads and the the dasboard lights came on but with an error that the engine was out. No SOC reading either. Had the LV battery charging overnight with 2 amp and the next that reading 12,6 Volt. But still no change in error massages on the dash.

I had it transported to the Smart Center at MB.
They called me few days later with there "diagnosis" that the 12V batt was dead, and that the HV battery was dead also! The dealer contacted with MB and concluded that replacement would cost me € 22.500 incl. taxes!!! I bought the ED at age of 2 year for € 17.500.

My guess is that if the battery cells are slowly loosing there charge over time, one of them falls below a safety level and the software shuts down the entire battery. Maybe if the "bad" cell could be charged separate, or the entire HV battery could be charged bypassing the software ( having the relay in the battery close via a command on the CAN bus?) there is a possibility of recuperating the battery.

Charging Issue - Page 2 - Electric Drive - Club smart Car
 

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...after charging each their cell voltages were clustered around 3.7V ... some as low as 3.56 and some a 3.82. After about 36 hours from the last charging I did, the total for the entire pack was ~334V, and this voltage remained stable.

....

Although I'm not sure what the individual cell voltage is now ... or even the entire pack voltage now that the pack is installed in the car (as I don't have the device you mentioned) ... it seems evident that although the car's charger is engaged (I can hear it hum, and can see that the Siemens is delivering power to the car), something is consuming this charging energy.

And another question. What do you think I should do with this car? It's just hard to believe that with all this nearly pristine hardware there isn't any option but the scrap heap ... or buying an over-priced and obsolete battery pack from MB. Is this really something that's worth "parting out?"
Couple responses:

The fully charged voltage for the type of lithium cell the Smart and most EV's use (LiNiMnCoO2 ) is about 4.2 volts. Based on the pack scans I've done on my Smart ED, 3.6-3.7 volts corresponds to about 30% SOC, while at 12% SOC, the cell voltages were 3.55 volts.

Also, the hum of the EVSE is just the sound that the relay coil inside it makes. The EVSE needs a amperage indication to tell if the car's on-board charger is actually on and charging. But another way to check is that if the car's charger is on for more than a few minutes, you will feel some warm air coming from the right side slots in the rear bumper.

As far as having to junk the car, it is a real shame, isn't it? One would think that a possibly wantonly and knowingly deliberate design defect which totals the car if you simply leave the headlights on or not drive the car for a couple months would be the case for a class-action lawsuit. You might consider at least looking up and getting a consultation with a lawyer who specializes in automobile consumer matters.
 

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I have an aurduino that talks canbus and reads battery health and voltage and my autel obd2 tool does also.
Can give you more details if you want

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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You may be right about the lawyer. I'm pretty much shocked that this kind of design was allowed to remain in place ... especially as the "fix" is just a software issue. Every other part of this car seems really well done, even to the way they've maximized creature comforts and passenger protection inside the cockpit. As an old engineer myself, I can tell that considerable effort went into the design of this battery module as well, and yet the battery protection design is surprisingly inept. It's certainly a head-shaker.

During the brief time my Siemens unit indicates that it's actually charging the car, it is drawing significant current from its 220VAC supply, and I suspect that what's going on is that the battery is both being charged by the on-board charger, and being discharged by the BMS system. Last night I left the car to its own devices, and with an SOC indication of ~7%. This morning, the SOC indicated ~3%. and using the ignition ON/OFF routine, quickly brought the "resting" SOC indication to ~7%. Now, an hour later, the resting SOC indication is ~5%. To me this indicates that either the BMS is still trying to discharge the battery pack, or that one or more cells in the pack is self-discharging, and further attempts to make thing better won't really help.

As to the battery voltages you mentioned, I'm curious. The battery in my car is is marked with a nominal voltage of 339V, and I've read several places that the normal resting voltage of these batteries is 3.7V ... and in other places, I've read that this is the "half-charged" state for these batteries. I've used 4V as a maximum value when charging both individual cells, and as a multiplier when charging multiple cells at once with my external charger. Because my lab power supply could only produce a regulated 35VDC, when charging 8 cells I would only ramp up the charging voltage to 32V while monitoring the charge current. In the case of the module shown in the attached picture, the 113.3V total means that the average voltage of the cells in this module is 3.65V (113.3/31) ... and that pretty much agrees with the cell voltages you've found on your own car as well as the readings on the SOC indicator. If I had used 4.2V as a charging maximum (instead of the 4V limit I'd chosen), I wonder if my charging efforts would have been more successful. Or, if this higher charging voltage would have prompted a thermal runaway, and a garage fire.

I have ordered a cell scanner, and will wait until it arrives to decide what to actually do with this mess. And I've got several feelers out hoping to find a tech with a STAR device that may be able to assist, but right now it's pretty gloomy here in beautiful Central Oregon.
 

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Jon - as for the lawyer, the forum members could certainly try to root out others who have or have had a similar issue, so you might be able to make it a class action suit. Maybe just getting Mercedes attention might get them to send out a "fix" to their dealers or at least "grease your squeaky wheel."

I may be getting ahead of myself here, but I for one would be willing to chip in a few bucks for lawyer fees and I bet others with an EV, even if they are not affected, would do the same.

Your battery test unit will go out today. You should have it Monday or Tuesday I'd guess.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 18,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 12,000 miles
 

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Jon - as for the lawyer, the forum members could certainly try to root out others who have or have had a similar issue, so you might be able to make it a class action suit. Maybe just getting Mercedes attention might get them to send out a "fix" to their dealers or at least "grease your squeaky wheel."

I may be getting ahead of myself here, but I for one would be willing to chip in a few bucks for lawyer fees and I bet others with an EV, even if they are not affected, would do the same.
As of today ALL 451 ED owners are in this quandary together with no resolution in sight! I think many current ED owners would be interested some sort of legal action to move Daimler to do the right thing!

Not sure where Jon is located but might want to focus on attorneys in a CARB state in order to find someone with EV expertise???

It simply is not right to own a low mileage M-B EV billed as low maintenance where every time you turn the key you feel like you are playing the (will it start?) ED Lottery!

The Daimler logic (or lack of same) that may be contributing to bricked ED's needs to be addressed BEFORE we ALL find ourselves with a rather expensive paperweight in the driveway . . .
 

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I have found a tech with an upper end Snap-On STAR device that is willing to give resetting the error flags in my little car's battery control system a shot. He said that some areas that are readable by this device cannot be reset by it because these areas are reserved by manufacturers. He is willing to give it a try though, and I'm going to trailer it to the shop on Monday next. I'll post the results.
 

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Good luck!

If you have success, could you record the SnapOn tool model/revision number (and any accessory software unlocks) of the tool that was successful? That will be helpful for other members (and might allow me to find one within commuting range so I could capture the CAN traffic and see if it can be distributed more widely).
 

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Mine was replaced just before warranty ran out and it said courtesy , the said prev dealer did not do full srrvice they stated they had. I just think early battery design was bad, i saw video online, 2 smart batteries same year car, different design entirely. Mine is a 2017 battery design and is as healthy now as it was 24000 miles ago

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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