[IMYB]

Hi, A month ago my 12v battery died on the car and nothing would work. Didn't know there was a 12v battery in the car, lol... figured it's electric it must be just 1 big battery. Changed the battery, car came back to life and working great with more miles than before for some reason. But today noticed that the portable charged is like "melted/melting". I had noticed the small discoloration a while back but that is all it was a discoloration but today say this (see pictures)

The car charged just fine to 100%. No idea if it was like this before I charged the car since the way the car is plugg this "more severe" damage is behind and I can't see it when I plug it. There was NO BURNT smell in the garage when I went to the car today. I have a feeling this happened when the 12v was bad and the car was not charging but because the "small discoloration on one of the pictures" was seen months ago maybe this cable has been going bad for a while??

I have a 2014 smart for 2 electric, the one on my profile picture

QUESTIONS

1- Can I still use it? If I still use it what is the worst that can happen?
2- Where do I get a replacement?
3- How much?

This is the only car I have to get around so I need a quick solution.

I looked on Amazon for charger but they say things like LEVEL 1, LEVEL 2... no idea what I need of what is a good charger. At home I plug the car in a regular 110v outlet. The charger is OFF the floor attached to the wall. It's a clean dry garage with no obstruction that can cause water or heat to get to it. When the car is done charging I unplug the car end and the wall end until it's needed again.

Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[hallcp]

Looks fried to me. If it gets warm while in use it could be dangerous. Any connection that’s not shiny, bright snd secure can be a hotspot.
I use a level 2 charger from Duosida, which requires a 240v outlet. If you stick with level 1, 110v you’re good with your old wall outlet. If you shop around you should find one for $200 or so. Amazon has a lot to pick from, but prices are all over the map. The cheap ones should be fine.
That’s just my 2 cents. Hopefully some expert will chime in.

 

[IMYB]

Looks fried to me. If it gets warm while in use it could be dangerous. Any connection that’s not shiny, bright snd secure can be a hotspot.
I use a level 2 charger from Duosida, which requires a 240v outlet. If you stick with level 1, 110v you’re good with your old wall outlet. If you shop around you should find one for $200 or so. Amazon has a lot to pick from, but prices are all over the map. The cheap ones should be fine.
That’s just my 2 cents. Hopefully some expert will chime in.

Thanks for the info. am I to understand that:

LEVEL 1 means it works on 110v
LEVEL 2 means it works on 220v

 

[hallcp]

Right, but some chargers can do both 110 or 240. Remember your wall outlet only supplies 16 amps, the charger should be configurable to limit it's consumption to that. Tesla car chargers, for example, come with various adapters, each adapter tells the charger how much current to draw.

 

[IMYB]

Right, but some chargers can do both 110 or 240. Remember your wall outlet only supplies 16 amps, the charger should be configurable to limit it's consumption to that. Tesla car chargers, for example, come with various adapters, each adapter tells the charger how much current to draw.

Ok, so when I search for a wire what should I look for... LEVEL 1, 16amp... is there something about the connection style? I don't think this connector (part that plug to the car) is the same style as tesla?

 

[DudeInTheSmart]

I use one of these in the garage. Fine if you have a 20 Amp circuit to the plug.
Morec EV Charger 16A 3.68KW NEMA6-20 Plug with Adapter for NEMA 5-15, 100V-240V 21ft (6.5m) Level 1 Level 2 Electric Vehicle charging cable Compatible with All EV Cars https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07HH4LJD2/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_VCNX8ZZQB2EKK8ER0G6A

 

[IMYB]

I see that the unit you sent can be used with a "regular" wall outlet with the adapter cable. This is how my setup is right now but I am kinda afraid now of the "adapter" part to make it compatible to plug in a regular outlet (NEMA 5-15r). Is it easy to remove that plug in the wall and change it to a (NEMA 6-20) or do I need an electrician to run a new wire to be able to use that charger without the adapter little wire?

I am not a pro at electrical stuff but my understanding was that in the wall is 220v and it gets split to 2x110 in the outlet, now, I CAN BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THIS...LOL

The electrical fuse box is only a few feet away from where the car is plugged, so I guess I can have another wire run if needs be OR I can just plugged it in the wall as usual and get over my fear that it's what caused the melting ...

 

[IMYB]

I use one of these in the garage. Fine if you have a 20 Amp circuit to the plug.
Morec EV Charger 16A 3.68KW NEMA6-20 Plug with Adapter for NEMA 5-15, 100V-240V 21ft (6.5m) Level 1 Level 2 Electric Vehicle charging cable Compatible with All EV Cars https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07HH4LJD2/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_VCNX8ZZQB2EKK8ER0G6A

Just curious as to why you switched to this cable instead of the cable that came with the car like the one I had?

 

[DudeInTheSmart]

If you are in the US and have a standard 3-prong wall socket it is120 V, you cannot just switch sockets to get 240. I went with this one because it is 16 Amp vs 12 Amp that came with the car and charges 30% faster.

If it is a short run to your breaker box (and the house is reasonably new), you can have an elecrition run a 240V line for a couple hundred $. In that case, I would look at even faster charging boxes than this one. Have a 40 Amp circuit run and you can get a 240V 30 Amp charger wired in and charge about 4 times faster than with your old charger.

 

[Yinzer]

I see that the unit you sent can be used with a "regular" wall outlet with the adapter cable. This is how my setup is right now but I am kinda afraid now of the "adapter" part to make it compatible to plug in a regular outlet (NEMA 5-15r). Is it easy to remove that plug in the wall and change it to a (NEMA 6-20) or do I need an electrician to run a new wire to be able to use that charger without the adapter little wire?

I am not a pro at electrical stuff but my understanding was that in the wall is 220v and it gets split to 2x110 in the outlet, now, I CAN BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THIS...LOL

The electrical fuse box is only a few feet away from where the car is plugged, so I guess I can have another wire run if needs be OR I can just plugged it in the wall as usual and get over my fear that it's what caused the melting ...



View attachment 68536

No.

Brief Primer:

The power into your circuit breaker box has three wires. The voltage between the two "hot" wires is 240 volts, and the voltage between one of the hot wires and the third neutral wire is 120 volts.

1. The ordinary household circuits are one hot wire and a neutral (plus the safety ground) so are 120 volts and a maximum of 15 amps.

2. The only circuits that are "traditionally" 240 volts is a clothes dryer (240V 30 Amp), electric kitchen range (240V 50 amp), central air conditioning 240 V 30 or 50 amp) or large window air conditioner 240V 20 amp - the latter used that NEMA 6-20. They have 2 hot wires, a neutral wire and a safety ground wire. Going into the future, a 240 volt 50 or 60 amp car charging circuit will be a part of most houses too.

3. A level 2 charging box (EVSE) is 240 volts which can provide the full 3400 watts to the 2013-2015 smart ED charger. The most a Level 1 (the thing that came with the car) can provide is 1800 watts.

4. The CORRECT plug to connect a level 2 EVSE is a NEMA 14-50 socket which is wired to a dedicated 50 amp 240 volt circuit - the same plug you have at your kitchen range if you have an electric range. For the Smart ED, you could also use a NEMA 14-30 (clothes dryer) 30 amp plug and circuit becasue the most the North American Smart charger draws is 15 amps, but any future EV (including the 2016 and later Smart 453) will have a larger charger and will draw up to 40-50 amps, so you want the NEMA 14-50.

Regarding that damage to your EVSE plug and cable, there is a communication protocol from the EVSE to the car's charger which tells the cars charger how much current it can safely draw for the circuit the EVSE is connected to. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772) It looks like the weak 12V battery messed up the charger's logic and the charger tried to draw more current than is should have. The circuit breaker may be 15 amps, but the maximum continuous draw on such as circuit is 12 amps.

 

[Jeb Baker]

the "small discoloration on one of the pictures" was seen months ago maybe this cable has been going bad for a while??

That plug/socket connector overheated and cooked itself over time. That plug and socket failed because the connection junction couldn't handle the current demand. I see the ev-institute website no longer carries this model. I would not want to buy from them. If you get a new level 1 cable that is for 110v only, then you will not have this connector issue to worry about. Then later, if you want to install a 240v wall outlet for the garage, then you can get a level 2 cable specific for that. Since the smart car can easily do a level 1 charge overnight from the 110v outlet, some people don't ever install 240v for level 2 charging . I use the level 1 cable that came with the car, and even at the lower current setting (8 amps) it still charges me up overnight. I only need level 2 charging when I forget to plug it in at night, and I need to charge up quickly. Simple Level 1 cables are relatively (about $200) inexpensive. Even Home Depot, Autozone and Walmart are selling them online.

 

[Yinzer]

Since the smart car can easily do a level 1 charge overnight from the 110v outlet, some people don't ever install 240v for level 2 charging . I use the level 1 cable that came with the car, and even at the lower current setting (8 amps) it still charges me up overnight. I only need level 2 charging when I forget to plug it in at night, and I need to charge up quickly. Simple Level 1 cables are relatively (about $200) inexpensive. Even Home Depot, Autozone and Walmart are selling them online.

I would find my ED much less usable without the ability to charge it at L2 rates - 20% to 100% in 4.5 to 5 hours, versus 11 hours. I installed my own Open EVSE L2 station from a kit - branched from my dryer circuit. That 120V box that came with the car has only been used a few times in "opportunity charging" situations in parking garages.

 

[IMYB]

I use one of these in the garage. Fine if you have a 20 Amp circuit to the plug.
Morec EV Charger 16A 3.68KW NEMA6-20 Plug with Adapter for NEMA 5-15, 100V-240V 21ft (6.5m) Level 1 Level 2 Electric Vehicle charging cable Compatible with All EV Cars https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07HH4LJD2/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_VCNX8ZZQB2EKK8ER0G6A

Just curious as to why you switched to this cable instead of the cable that came with the car li

 

[IMYB]

JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY...

If I put a NEMA 6-20 PLUG on my wall with a 8-3 wire to my FUSE box with a 40 breaker... then I can charge the car faster than when I use a regular 110v outlet?

Thanks for any input on this.

 

[hallcp]

What you describing would be unsafe. The breaker should sized to protect the outlet and wire from overload. The NEMA 6-20 would melt at less than 40 amps so is not protected.

Also the wiring at your main panel is different for 240v as is the breaker.

You should probably contact a local electrician. You may be pleasantly surprised at how many such EV charging set-ups they've done. Select your charger first, or with the electrician's help. If you need good charger advice Clipper Creek has great tech support, but their chargers are pricey.

Depending on tne location of your main panel with respect to the new outlet, you can expect a cost of from $150 to $450 or so to have the work done. Some power companies will even help you pay for the installation.

 

[Yinzer]

JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY...

If I put a NEMA 6-20 PLUG on my wall with a 8-3 wire to my FUSE box with a 40 breaker... then I can charge the car faster than when I use a regular 110v outlet?

Thanks for any input on this.

In addition to hallcp's important reply, FORGET the NEMA 6-20 plug. That plug is pretty much obsolete - dating to the time when large 240 volt window air conditioners were common. They are never used for any EVSE that I knew of until I saw the one you linked. I would not buy it because finding a NEMA 6-20 plug anywhere outside one you install at your home is unlikely.

The NEMA 14-50 socket is the standard outlet or electrical code-required disconnect for L2 EVSE's - either portable or wall-mounted. Look for a L2 EVSE that has a NEMA 14-50 plug. they also make dual-plug (or adapter) versions for both L1 and L2 charging.

I am OK with DIY electrical work - I do my own electrical work for anything except work that requires the meter be pulled (i.e. putting in a new panel) but you are not giving me a feeling that you know what you are doing. I recommend using an electrician or a friend who is competent in such work.

 

[Jeb Baker]

JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY...

If I put a NEMA 6-20 PLUG on my wall with a 8-3 wire to my FUSE box with a 40 breaker... then I can charge the car faster than when I use a regular 110v outlet?

Thanks for any input on this.

Yes you can charge faster with 240 volts. But charging faster also will shorten the overall life of the battery. If you have the time for a slower longer charge, use 110 volts. Use 240 volts only when absolutely necessary. But as others have said, get an electrician, and don't use a NEMA 6-20 outlet.

 

[sokoloff]

Jeb - got more info on the battery life using 240v vs. 110v to charge? I almost always use 110, but I don't recall ever seeing any info about the downside of using 240?

Len

 

[Yinzer]

Jeb - got more info on the battery life using 240v vs. 110v to charge? I almost always use 110, but I don't recall ever seeing any info about the downside of using 240?

Len

Even using 240 volt charging, the North American Smart's charger is only about 3500 watts which is a charging rate of only C/5 (C=battery capacity in AH - 50AH in the case of the ED). All lithium chemistries I know of will charge at even 2C/3 with no harm to their cycle life at all and in Europe, where the 22 kw (1.25C) chargers are an option in Smart ED/EQs there are no reports of harm to cycle life.

 

[IMYB]

WOW, thanks for all the great info but my head will explode...LOL!

I work from home, Always plug the car to charge overnight. I NEVER have a need (at this point in time) to charge fast. So, if I just want to charge SLOW using the 110v outlet which charger/cable would be good to use for that?

The reason I was looking for the 220 was so I didn't have to use the "little converter cable to 110" since I was afraid that it was the cause of the melting issue. But, someone above said that it was most likely the 12v battery dying that caused this melting so I am fine with staying with the 110v option since this melting never happened when charging the car for the past 3 years this way. The melting only happened when the battery issue happened.

Ok, so what charger/cable for 110v do you guys recommend (not too expensive, not looking for a $500 cable at this point in time)?

am I looking for a J1772 with a NEMA-5-15 plug?

Thanks!