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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi Everybody in the Original Smart Community (only "450" folks),
No solution afterall. Further study revealed that although it can be done, the cost is a lot higher than I had been told. So is the work required by the owner. Not interested in pursuing this solution at this time. I'm still attempting to find a better one for everyone. Stay tuned.

I've eliminated the original message here in order to prevent confusion.

Ron Gaus, asmartcar.com, St. Louis
 

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Ron,

Is this a fobless key for opening doors and starting car? i.e. all metal that could go surfing?

either way, let's give it a try. You have my VIN from my recent medallion buy but here it is again: WMEEK31X28K165446

P.S. I'd like to think you can't get a key this way since VIN numbers are visible from the exterior of a vehicle. It would make stealing them very easy.

- David -
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
David, whoops! You have a 2008! We can't do those. Sorry. In fact, after further study, even the earlier smarts don't have an easy solution at this point... but we are still looking for one.
Ron
 

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Ron,
What years can you do? I have a 2003 that my second key quit working on. Since I am 500 miles from my G&K dealer (Green Car Co.), I have not taken back to them yet for warranty replacement, so perhaps your method using the VIN will save a major roadtrip for the repair.

Tom
 

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idahosmart

You have 2 dead keys?????? If I pay for the shipping can I have them(just the electronics), both my keys work and I want to dig into 1 SSSSOOOO bad:hackitup:, I'll even make you a deal (or try to) I'll only work on 1 at a time and if I find a problem and I believe I can fix the 2nd key, I'll fix it and send it back.

Let me know what you think

ASM






PS as you can see I have already looked, but because my key works I couldn't pull off the battery holed to see the circuit below it
 

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Tom

At work this morning a peer and I were talking about how these keys might work, we were looking at the photos figuring out how the circuit works.

Scott (peer) look up this subject on How Stuff Works http://auto.howstuffworks.com/remote-entry2.htm we found it interesting reading.

The thing that caught my eye was how to fix it, Tom could you try the suggested cure and let us know if it works.

I think everyone should read the article, as this may be the common denominator in all the remote failures, not just the Smarts

Hoping it works

ASM
 

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I have one dead key, not two. The one that is "dead" I replaced the battery on, but as soon as any buttons are pushed on the remote, it blinks the lights on the smart car 9 times, the alert that normally tells us to replace the battery in the remote. But I have a new battery in it. It will start the car if the security lock is already disengaged by the working key, but that is useless if the primary working key quits working.

So perhaps it has lost its synchronization. I will try the procedure suggested on the HowStuffWorks page. If it is a sync problem, then my secondary key may have just got out of sync because I did not use it for a while, as I used the other key for the previous 256+ unlocks.

Tom
 

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Greetings All

This will be a geeky post as well as long, OOHH where do I start?

First, it is possible the 450 keys and the 451 keys are made the same (just a GUESS on my part) so what has been discovered today may help the 451 owners as well and expose me to a wrist slapping.

Let’s start with the FOB, http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc4591.pdf this is the brains of the remote and MUCH to my surprise is very complicated and does much more that I ever expected. This remote does 2 things and could fail in 2 ways, 1st it is a remote for unlocking the car and 2nd it is an RFID (Radio Frequency Identification chip), OOHH and is programmable.

As a remote I don’t believe it is as complicated as the “How Stuff Works” post I did this morning, and nothing I have read in the application notes suggest the key word rolls, but a long keyword it is and I have not read everything as of yet.

As an RFID it too isn’t super complicated but putting both together is a **** buster. Some may wonder what an RFID chip is and how it works, well we see and use them every day. Anyone have a pet? When you go to the vet and they take that wand and pass it over the neck it activates that RFID chip (the magnetic field of the wand as it passes over the chip induces a voltage giving the chip power to transmit the pet’s serial number)? Anyone work at a company where your ID badge is swiped over something to unlock a door? Well there is a RFID chip in that badge. There is the same kind of chip in the FOB as well.

So the 2 failures you could see are 1: doors don’t unlock (failure of the remote portion of that FOB) or 2: you’re able to unlock the doors but the car doesn’t start (failure of the RFID part of the FOB)

By reading the application sheets I found this is the receiver for the remote/RFID combo Atmel Products - Product Card that is in the car somewhere (maybe in the SAM unit or in this FQ101 : Smart Car Modifications ) and that too is programmable.

Now we come to the part where I speculate (guess), I have heard that you can’t order a Smart key unless you give a VIN#. I believe the VIN# you give is programmed as the RFID serial # (makes sense), then to get the key to lock/unlock that is where you need to go to the dealer (I’m not going to guess here because it could a few things new code/reset code/etc) to get the remote part activated.

Today both my keys work, but from what I’ve read this problem is only a matter of time and there is NO way I’ll let a 25K investment become a 1,600 pound paper weight, even if I have to buy the developers kit for these chips. AND if the 450 keys are the same as the 451 keys MB may want to rethink their snubbing of we gray owners because I LIKE TO SHARE

ASM
 

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I tried the procedure from HowStuffWorks and it did not work for me. I turned the ignition on and off 8 times within 10 seconds, left it on, then pressed the remote on both key fobs. The bad key still blinks my lights 9 times whenever I press any of the remote buttons. I repeated the process 3 times, same results.

I believe the RFID is OK, as I can still start the car with that key if I unlock it with the good key first. I even had my good key 30+ feet away, as RFID signals only travel a few feet.

Tom
 

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the photos above were confusing me as to how they did the unlock button or the panic button... (only three buttons above)

so against better judgment I popped open my fob and took a peek inside... I am super hosed it it lost it's code now because the other key is 40 miles away

when we pop open the 451 fob...the battery is on one side and NOT in a holder that keeps contact while open

Our 451 fob circuit board is distinctly different and has 4 buttons


Edited in: Just went out side and tried all funtions...still working... whew!
 

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Well

Tom

Seeing you remote does not work on you car I was wondering, does it makes any other Smart flash 9 times as well? (I wonder how many others Gray owners have tried their FOB on a different Smart).

Tom can you give us summary as to the failure of the key (thinking about the last time it worked and the first time it failed and ALL IMPORTANT, what happened in between

Yet your FOB seems to be talking to the car (those 9 flashes), just not opening it. I DO NOT know if any another Gray owner pushed their FOB would give your car the same 9 flashes.

There may be a Patton of failure here, and if we figure it is to we MAY reduce lost keys by 50% easly.

I've done extensive reading of the PDf and all associated documents over the last few days. down loaded the application Software for these chips, ETC.

I have been promised a dead SAM, first goal is to find and replace the VIN the second is to see if I can convert this SAM to my VIN with the applications KIT and getting the SAM to unlock the doors and kill the immobilizer.

So in summary, when I get that dead SAM, I will change the VIN to my car, BUT that will also mean (after vin change) comes the code change, I'm close here, give me 3-6 months and there will be NO gray owner who have to pay more the the cost of the key ( I believe in most cases the bad key is still good, they just need to new reprogrammed).

My goal is to get all this reprogram on my Pilot, and if I pull this off, I will loan out the equipment with a 1K deposit, when it returns the 1K is refunfed (if it works out you can use your own keys and just reprogram)

Well enough for 1 night, the option are endless and could be available in 1-6 months (I'm relying in other people ) Win?LOSE, It doesnt matter, we always learn in the end:confused:

ASM
 

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hi guys,

i'm working on a smart car too at the moment with the same key problem, we don't have a dealer in this country so the car has been sitting for about a year. i had a look at it today and used a diagnostic tool on the car.

thought it might help you a bit to figure this thing out.

Type - 452
PZ - 8
Year - 2001
Made in France
UK number plate
currently in pakistan. :)

problem - car will not start, when you hit the lock or unlock button on the key, the indicators flash 9 times. i read on another info page that it means the battery on the key is weak so i changed the battery and still have the same problem.

Error Code generated by the tool is - B1052 "recieved radio remote control key code is outside detection range".

I searched for this error code online and got another description of the error code which is "B1052 PASSENGER SEATBELT BUCKLE SWITCH CROSS LINK TO ANOTHER SENSOR",

i only have one key and the circuit looks similar to the pics posted on this page ... nothing different that i can see.

there is a key programmer which i'm looking into ... and if i do run into anything i'll post it here.

hope this helps,

good luck.
 

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[...]

Error Code generated by the tool is - B1052 "recieved radio remote control key code is outside detection range".[...]
In "our" 451, when the key's button(s) have been hit a certain amount of times (128 or 256) without actually "talking" to the ignition lock, it gets "out of range". We've been told that only a Dealership, with an Internet connection to Smartville, can actually revive the fob, once the rightful ownership has been deemed genuine. :rolleyes:
 

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..n-gen

When you say "it won't start" are you saying the key won't start it? (by won't start I mean, the starter motor doesn't turn) or are you saying when you turn the key the starter motor runs yet the car doesn't start.

There are 2 things going on with the FOB, 1: it locks and unlocks the car and 2: it has a RFID chip in it allowing the starter motor to engauge

With my 06 450 I know if my door is ajar and I try to lock it, it will flash, I also know of another guy here in the US that has a 01 Smart, to clear this problem he disconnected the battery over night.

let us know.

ASM

ps. I too don't want to have my investment turn into a paper weight (no support for pre 08 smarts in the US) and is working on a solution (1 step forward 2 steps back) as I type, it is more convoluted than 1 would think (or I'm trying to over engineer things causing my stumbles)



hi guys,

i'm working on a smart car too at the moment with the same key problem, we don't have a dealer in this country so the car has been sitting for about a year. i had a look at it today and used a diagnostic tool on the car.

thought it might help you a bit to figure this thing out.

Type - 452
PZ - 8
Year - 2001
Made in France
UK number plate
currently in pakistan. :)

problem - car will not start, when you hit the lock or unlock button on the key, the indicators flash 9 times. i read on another info page that it means the battery on the key is weak so i changed the battery and still have the same problem.

Error Code generated by the tool is - B1052 "recieved radio remote control key code is outside detection range".

I searched for this error code online and got another description of the error code which is "B1052 PASSENGER SEATBELT BUCKLE SWITCH CROSS LINK TO ANOTHER SENSOR",

i only have one key and the circuit looks similar to the pics posted on this page ... nothing different that i can see.

there is a key programmer which i'm looking into ... and if i do run into anything i'll post it here.

hope this helps,

good luck.
 

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J.Paul -

i understand what you are trying to say... the scanner i have can re-program keys and has the capability to fix immobilizer issues of all sorts of american, japanese, european and even australian makes such as holden ... so why not the smart car. i have asked the manufacturer of the diagnostic scanner to come up with a solution and they are working on it. I guess it's a good way to protect the car from theft, but they should not charge so much just to sort this out.

ASM -

When I turn the key all i hear is 2 relay switches trying to do something. nothing else.

with my key, the central locking doesn't work and the RFID part doesn't work either. the indicators flash 9 times when the unlock key is pressed. that's it.

The battery of the car has been taken out numerous times for long periods of times ... maybe even weeks at a time but still doesn't resolve the problem.

I also thought of bypassing the immobilizer and supplying the right voltage to the correct relay on the SAM unit in the right place which would start the car but would not allow the gear shifting to work, coz that seems to be handled in the ECU. I did get the starter motor to crank the engine but did not start. Probably coz the gear was not in "N". then things were getting a bit too complicated so i left it there and started finding ways to sync the key.

anyways if i do come across anything else i'll keep you posted...
 

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'n-gen',
Since it looks like the way to unlock your key is blocked by too many technical hurdles, another way I see is to get the manufacturer to cooperate. Why don't you try to write to the plant in Hamback, and explain the situation. You may want to include copies of proof of legitimate ownership, and offer to give all documents you can get and pertaining to tracing down the vehicle from the plant to you.
Granted, it sounds complicated. But that's a path where you may have more success than decoding the security system.
What do you think? :confused:
 
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