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Flat Tow ?? YES!!!

194K views 383 replies 118 participants last post by  free2wander 
#1 ·
I just found out that the SMART cars can be flat towed...
 
#2 ·
apowers

so.... prove it

I personally believe it can be because it looks like a typical manual trany with a neutral gear.... BUT I admit I don't know squat about a Getrag trany so there may be some pump I am not aware of that lube the diff or something...

Book says no more then 30 mile at slow speeds...or something like this...

I you found empirical info you should post all your data not just some declaration about a subject we have been discussing about for 8 months now
 
#3 · (Edited)
The smart doesn't have a steering column lock. The Brits say that you have to lash the steering wheel (dead straight ahead!) for any flat towing. I would imaging that flat towing with the front end free could be dicey if one front wheel had appreciably more drag due to under inflation and if the smart was short on wheel caster.
 
#7 ·
towable flat per Smart

Last week I asked a Smart USA rep about flat towing and she said the manual is being written to reflect that it indeed, can be flat towed. Just put it in neutral and go.
Many Canadians are towing their Smarts for the past few years.
We've flat towed a 4x4 car for years and it doesn't require anything be done to the steering wheel.
I'm hopeful that the hitch points will be a 2nd tow hook spot on the left corner like the existing one on the right corner.

Hamp
 
#9 ·
I have been reading this ridiculous go-around for some time and it is stupid.

BTW: you only tie/lash the front wheels when towing from the rear. The 'trail' (Caster) of the front wheel alignment takes care of steering with a towbar only, not a rope.

Think for a moment, WHY no Flat towing. Don't just come back with 'Automatic transmission'. We used to Flat tow automatics. what changed?
Tha Manf's, in their infinate wisdom, decided to eliminate the rear pump (driven by the driveshaft). You could Flat tow cars with rear pumps.You can Flat tow a car with an automatic trans today if...... It 's done with a aux. pump and a 1qt reservior. Dumps 1qt of ATF when you turn the engine off, pump returns 1qt back when engine is started. Motor homers do it all the time.

Now, GET THIS: The inside of the Smart transmission is a STD transmission. You can Flat tow a STD tranmission.

The interrogative I pose is: Not why prove it's OK to Flat tow, prove to me WHY I shouldn't flat tow with this transmission ? DON"T give me speculation, give me facts

Prove to me that after removing the, external electric. shifting mechanism you have anything but a STD trans.

BTW: I am an engineer

Donald LaFavor
 
#12 ·
Prove to me that after removing the, external electric. shifting mechanism you have anything but a STD trans.

BTW: I am an engineer

Donald LaFavor

This is only possible if you know for sure you are, in fact, safely removing/disabling the mechanism...

Turn on key
Press foot brake
Release parking brake
Shift to Neutral

Then what?

Turn off key? Will it even cut off in neutral? Will it count the miles towed?
Will you be able to remove key?
Is there a way ensure it stays in neutral?

I'm just playing "devil's advocate" here, obviously, but still, these questions come to mind...

I agree with you concerning the steering...Tires will most likely follow the path of least resistance...:D
 
#15 ·
These issues are exactly why I am a tad snotty when we are told it can, or can not be flat towed... it all depends only on one issue in my mind.... how is the getrag lubricated?

The issue about neutral and clutch is fairly simple... we know already that when motor is OFF the clutch is engaged..not released...

The thoughts above about how you leave the car in neutral are relevant...

The "P" position really places the transmission in reverse gear at shut down to prevent roll away theft ..... a Smart Trained tech claims they taught there is a tranly lock "pawl" in the "P" position... I am suspicious of this claim and have a Missouri show me attitude...

None of the gen 1 or 2 had this "Pawl" in the getrag 6 speed... seems to me an unnecessary complication... ON the other hand...I can see why a "Pawl" would be necessary for the CDI diesel version to prevent bump start so perhaps they just have it in all Smart 5spd getrag tranies...

My gut and historical fact tells me the 5speed getrag is splash lubed like any other manual tranny... I have seen the Lil Buggers in Europe tag along all 4 on the ground behind RVs....

However this in itself is not proof... there are many companies that have decouplers for drive axles on other popular tow behind RV cars...so I can not say all the Smart cars I saw behind RVs were not mechanically altered or adapted for flat towing... BUT I know I have seen more then 5 fortwos behind RVs at autobahn speeds (80kph ~50mph)

I can hear the wheels in some of your heads wondering why not just tow it behind up on a dolly or trailer... and true this is the best way to save wear and tear on the "dinghy" (term for a flat towed car behind a RV)

For many RV owners this is a viable option...BUT there are a lot of RVs out there that are limited in total Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR) for these adding the 1200~2400pounds of a car trailer and the weight of the car exceeds the specs and can cause serious consequences with states that pull over and weigh the RVers... hint 36,001 pounds can place some vehicle + trailer combinations into a commercial vehicle category ( in some states) the fines can be substantial and cumulative
 
#19 ·
Ok, so our treainer was here, and as of TODAY...The flat tow option isn't going to work...The manual is wrong, and SMART is working on a solution!!!

Sorry Guys! :)

Just to add to the confusion, the SeattlesmartCenter head of maintenance told me today that the car CAN be towed on all four wheels, in neutral. However, so far I don't believe there's a towbar anyone's come up with.
 
#20 ·
Here we go again !
This tranny (451) is basically the same as the 450 (Main difference is linkage).

The 450 may be flat towed from here to kingdom come.

Think of what are the actual reasons a car can't be flat towed .

all cars can be flat towed UNLESS it has an automatic transmission WITHOUT A REAR PUMP and even these cars can be flat towed an attachment to compensate for the lack of a rear pump.

I guarantee it
 
#21 ·
OK, the only thing you should be concerned about is getting a decent fixing for your flat towing rig. An A bar frame would be ideal but there is only 1 fixing point on the front of the car.

Put the car into neutral so it shows N on the dash and remove the key. The car will stay in neutral and roll quite easily. There is no fluid pump in the transmission it just runs through a pool of fluid.

The new transmission is a 1x5, the old one was a 2x3 but this makes no difference.
Smart decided on the speed limit and range but I have contacted Getrag (the maker of the gearbox) and they said they imposed no such restrictions and said that towing is fine for unlimited mileage at legal towing speeds.

Anyway, don't tow it, drive it. Get the other half to drive the big vehicle.
 
#25 ·
I have talked to Roadmaster and Blue Ox and both told me that they weren't. A smart representive told me that Smart wasn't. You gotta have a towbar and base plate before you can tow.
Blue Ox shows a base plate on their website (blueox.us).
Go to base plate, search Mercedes 2008, and the part number link brings up the installation guide. Nifty surgery required.

{Sorry I can't post the link with <3 posts.}
 
#28 ·
Towing Baseplate available for smart car

Hey RVers, just got a message from Blue Ox that they have added a towing baseplate to their product line for the 2008 smart car. It is part number BX1983, and full installation instructions, with many explicit photos, are on their website.

I am not affiliated with them and cannot vouch for the product, but it is a good sign! If only there will be a smart car under my christmas tree in December!!!

Bill in San Angelo TX
2008 Winnebago View
 
#32 ·
Talked to local Blue Ox dealer today. Base plate, wiring harness, Aventa tow bar, safety chains and everything to get me on the road. Everything installed,
out the door cost was $1556.82. I'm new to flat towing, but it seems like a lot. The base plate alone was $369.00 not installed.


Btw the smart fortwo is listed on the new 2008 dinghy guide.
 
#34 ·
Talked to local Blue Ox dealer today. Base plate, wiring harness, Aventa tow bar, safety chains and everything to get me on the road. Everything installed,
out the door cost was $1556.82. I'm new to flat towing, but it seems like a lot. The base plate alone was $369.00 not installed.


Btw the smart fortwo is listed on the new 2008 dinghy guide.

That sounds completely reasonable to me. Have you read the instructions on the install? Not easy.
 
#35 ·
If anyone is interested in tow bars I have a line on them in Europe. I can get them for the 450 and the 451. Small mod to the front bumper two holes need to be drilled and two more to the front bumper mounting support. The cost is of the complete A Frame front tow assembly is $895.00 plus shipping from Europe. Let me know 732-222-7548 if your interested. The Smarts have been flat towed in Europe for hundreds and thousands of miles no problem.
 
#42 ·
brake buddy - not necessary



Since the smart is so light, there really is no need for a brake buddy. Unless the vehicle doing the towing is not capable of braking the additional 1600 lbs; in which case it probably should be towing anything.
The 'Brake Buddy' is more necessary in a very heavy car, or if you just want a whole bunch more insurance if anything goes wrong in the tow setup.
If a decent motorhome is the towER and the smart is the towIE, the brake buddy would simply not be necessary.

Hamp
 
#37 ·
here is your answer from Smart USA about flat towing

Dear smart Enthusiast, The US model of the 2008 smart fortwo can be flat-towed on all four wheels behind another vehicle, such as an RV. We are aware that the current owner's manual states that the smart fortwo cannot be flat-towed. This is referencing the European model's towing capabilities, which have been modified for the USA. We are in the process of correcting this information in all US owners' manuals. smart USA currently does not provide a tow bar accessory at our smart centers. However, any commercial RV retailer should be able to make or adapt an existing tow bar for the smart fortwo. The smart's bumper structure is already designed to accommodate a tow bar. We have a modification procedure to easily accommodate a tow bar to the front structure of the vehicle behind the bumper, and have already provided these instructions to all smart centers. If you have any other questions or concerns, please contact us via email or by phone at 1.800.smartusa. Thank you for your interest in smart USA. You will be hearing from us soon! Jason Dupree Customer Service
 
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