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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,
Newbie here, but I am looking for a cheap EV long time and found on kijiji (Canadian version of Craigslist ) someone is transferring his 2016 Smart ED and asking for $1000+buyer pays transfer fee

The car is only $180 per mo tax included and come with lease protection, 24mo left with 60000km left

It sounds like no brain deal but is there any catch on this? I have never done lease before... Anyone can point to me the right direction?

Thanks


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Asking for a $1,000 "kiss" +transfer fee sounds a little steep? If they are motivated, that should be negotiable.

What did they put down/what is the lease end residual if applicable? At lease end, is there a turn in fee?

Taking over the lease will require that your credit qualifies in the eyes of M-B. May want to call M-B Financial Services first?

Dunno how off lease pricing is holding up for ED up North but auction/resale prices stateside are soft.
 

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Not sure where you are in Canada, we're in Toronto.

If its similar to the lease we have on our ED the guy is probably about 15 months into the lease. Check the total kilometres. A total of 60000 km (~20k / yr) allowance for the lease is about right for the lease payment. You may also want to check the residual and definitely get a copy of the lease agreement before you go forward.

We love our Smart and drive it all the time. Saves us about 2000 /yr on gas for our Mazda. Which gets a run every two weeks to keep it healthy.

Some things to consider:
  • Battery (range) will go from 120km now to about 85 km in winter.
  • I've seen 56 km range estimate at -28C with modest use of the cabin heater.
  • The cabin heater is an awful power drain, but the seat heaters are great.
  • You'll probably want a steering wheel heater in the winter. Or good gloves.
  • The included level 1 charger is ok, but you'll probably want a L2 charger in your garage.
  • You *need* snow tires. See if they are included.
  • An L2 charger install is probably going to cost you about $1200
  • As a second owner you cannot apply for the charger rebate (ON).
  • There are two further required services that must be done for lease/warranty. About $450 and $250 respectively.
  • There is a new ED model coming later this year. Details unknown.

See if you can get the first service report from the owner. It should list current battery capacity in Ah. Ours was listed at 50-51 Ah in both the first and second year service.

If you're not in a hurry (and near Toronto), there will be a few Smart ED owners (myself included) at the National Drive Electric meet up. If you get the car before that, I'll have a battery tester with me.

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hey I am in Downtown Toronto too

I gonna talk to the owner to see if better deal possible.

Let's see and definitely will come over for the meet up!

Thanks for the info
 

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Another GTA ED owner here and my plan is to also be at the meet. So...
In the meantime MB Canada has a transfer fee that has to be paid to do the deal. The guy you are leasing from might be sharing that cost to get you into the car and that's why it's only $1,000.
Go to the dealer where the car was leased, or any dealer closer to you and they can pull up just about everything on the car.
I first looked at taking over a lease before I got mine and I was quite happy to take it, but as it turns out MB will not allow a transfer in the first year and his car was 9 months old. So I ordered a new one!
Funny thing is he loved the car, but was also driving his other car for Uber and didn't get to use the ED much - range wasn't the only issue. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
At the end of day, I paid the owner $1000 for rim + snow tires(almost new) and $1320 Transfer fee to MB

The KM is low and exact 24mo left, I think it's not bad...

It is hard to find Smart ED in Toronto now, I call it a deal, even its a bit more expensive than I expected...
 

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Got my Smart ED in Aug 2015. Over one year, the only thing that needed replacement (under warranty) was the 110V Charger. Apparently it was plugged into a socket with poor wiring and the socket/plug started to heat up. The plug still heats up when I'm using the 12 Amp draw setting. At night, when I plug it in my garage, I set it for the 8 Amp draw setting. Word of caution: the 110V socket & plug was never designed for a 12 Amp draw. It's like leaving your electric iron on for 8+ hours.

I use it everyday for my 80 Km roundtrip commute to work (Mississauga to Vaughan), using the 400 series highways. Use the HOV lane on the 403 and usually set the cruise at 110 Km/hr. During spring & summer I use approx. 40% of my battery (one-way). I use a 110V plug-in at work, setup for keeping diesel engines warm in winter.


Have put 23K Kms on it so far. It's a 3 year lease, but I might end up buying it at the lease end. Dreading taking it for the 1st year service. MB Mississauga is dreadfully expensive. Looking at other dealers who can provide ED service. Maybe Peterborough or Oakville - let's see. Need to do it to keep the warranty intact, otherwise it is just a cash grab.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Got my Smart ED in Aug 2015. Over one year, the only thing that needed replacement (under warranty) was the 110V Charger. Apparently it was plugged into a socket with poor wiring and the socket/plug started to heat up. The plug still heats up when I'm using the 12 Amp draw setting. At night, when I plug it in my garage, I set it for the 8 Amp draw setting. Word of caution: the 110V socket & plug was never designed for a 12 Amp draw. It's like leaving your electric iron on for 8+ hours.

I use it everyday for my 80 Km roundtrip commute to work (Mississauga to Vaughan), using the 400 series highways. Use the HOV lane on the 403 and usually set the cruise at 110 Km/hr. During spring & summer I use approx. 40% of my battery (one-way). I use a 110V plug-in at work, setup for keeping diesel engines warm in winter.


Have put 23K Kms on it so far. It's a 3 year lease, but I might end up buying it at the lease end. Dreading taking it for the 1st year service. MB Mississauga is dreadfully expensive. Looking at other dealers who can provide ED service. Maybe Peterborough or Oakville - let's see. Need to do it to keep the warranty intact, otherwise it is just a cash grab.
Hey looks like your workplace is not far from mine...

I work for a truck company as well

I am planning to use those diesel plugs to charge my car with 12A, hope it wont fry the charger... (and hope it doesnt rain cuz its outside)
 

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All weather charging

Snow / water doesn't bother the charger, it is a sealed unit. Be mindful of the plug and socket.


My office is next to the IKEA in Vaughan, so I can get free charging, if spots are available, when I go there for lunch. Also Vaughan Mills Shopping Center & Heartland Center both have ChargePoint stations, which can be used with joining their network.


Add these to your list of items for extension cord storage and all weather charging. You never know how far the wall socket is on some occasions.

Soft Storage Folding Trunk Organizer
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004ZVN78C/
All-Weather Electrical Cord Connection Protection
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00LQB8VEO/
Extension Cord Holder
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000HEHDZY/
Extension Cord with Lighted Ends, 14/3, 100-Feet, 13-Amp
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000BQOOS2/


Join ChargePoint so that you can access their charging stations - add some money to your account - download the app to monitor your account:
www.chargepoint.com/join/


Bookmark these URLS to see where all the charging stations are:
https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html
www.caa.ca/evstations/

Kick the gas habit!:)
 

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Extension Cord with Lighted Ends, 14/3, 100-Feet, 13-Amp
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000BQOOS2/
I would recommend getting a 12/3 extension cord rather than a 14/3. 50ft has done us fine for a couple of years. Its over spec for your typical circuit and the max load of 12A on the charger, but that's good. Much less likely that the extension cable will overheat.

Don't forget that the manual and the charger explicitly say not to use the charger with an extension cord. Which is mostly lawyer crap, but still a worthwhile caution where high current is involved.

+1 on the organizer, also available from Canadian tire.

I use my forearm as a cable winder.
 

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Taking over an existing lease doesn't seem to offer many benefits compared to waiting just a few months for the new 453 ED. Either would require a credit check, and it's likely that monthly payments would be similarly aggressive. The new model will have greater range and faster charging, as well as all the other 453 features.
 

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Thicker gauge (12/3) means higher resistance, compensated with shorter overall extension cord length. Also an extension cord heating up to a point is good, because if it does overheat, that will prompt the panel circuit-breaker to quickly reset. Thus my reasoning behind 14/3 and 100 ft.

The cord winder is useful because it can be used to hang the cable and/or plug away from oil / water or just curious nocturnal animals.

When charging overnight, with 8+ hours available, use the default 8 Amp mode. Better safe than sorry.
 

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Thicker gauge (12/3) means higher resistance
Actually, that's completely wrong. Gauge increases in cross sectional area as it goes down. So a 12 gauge wire has less resistance per metre than a 14 gauge wire. 5.211/8.286 or about 40% less.

That's also why the cable used for your EVSE circuit is 8 gauge.

50ft vs 100ft for me is just a convenience. We've never needed more than 50ft to get to a receptacle.
 

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That's also why the cable used for your EVSE circuit is 8 gauge.
Do you have a 32A EVSE?

While you're right pointing out ITTrainers dangerous folly, one doesn't need to go crazy with the wire gauge. 8 is quite expensive and a pain to install, especially around corners or in conduit. 12 is the right gauge for a 20A breaker, which is all you need for the 16A EVSE for the smart.

14 gauge is OK for an extension cord, since the black brick only allows 12A.

Just watch the length of the extension. if the voltage drop is too much, the smart will stop charging. Cutoff is 100V at the brick. so more than 50m of 14 gauge will start to be a problem.
 

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Also an extension cord heating up to a point is good, because if it does overheat, that will prompt the panel circuit-breaker to quickly reset.
That's completely wrong, too!
How would the breaker know the temperature of the cable?
For the breaker to protect the circuit properly, the cable has to have at least the current carrying capability of the breaker. For 20A breakers, that's 12 gauge, for 15A it's 14 gauge.
 

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Taking over an existing lease doesn't seem to offer many benefits compared to waiting just a few months for the new 453 ED. Either would require a credit check, and it's likely that monthly payments would be similarly aggressive. The new model will have greater range and faster charging, as well as all the other 453 features.
I actually took over a 2014 lease in Toronto a year ago. It was absolutely the deal to take. The car was 11 months old with only 5K on the odometer and a 18K/year allowance, so I got two years and almost 50K at my disposal. The rate was CAD $113+tax. I split the guy's original downpayment (putting me a bit over $1K) and he took care of the transfer fees.
 

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Do you have a 32A EVSE?
We do have a 32A EVSE. :D

My reasoning is that our next car will be electric too. So installing a circuit less than a 40A for the equipment would mean we'd have to pay an electrician *again* and the inspector *again* if we wanted to get setup for a car with a higher capacity charger. Which pretty much means anything else on the market these days. Unlike the equipment, the labour costs go up, not down. :crying:

Also, the EVSE is setup with a plug rather than being hardwired. So we can easily switch it without requiring an inspection.

Which we've already done a couple of times because we were on a commercial EVSE pilot program, and the early units had issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Snow / water doesn't bother the charger, it is a sealed unit. Be mindful of the plug and socket.


My office is next to the IKEA in Vaughan, so I can get free charging, if spots are available, when I go there for lunch. Also Vaughan Mills Shopping Center & Heartland Center both have ChargePoint stations, which can be used with joining their network.


Add these to your list of items for extension cord storage and all weather charging. You never know how far the wall socket is on some occasions.

Soft Storage Folding Trunk Organizer
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004ZVN78C/
All-Weather Electrical Cord Connection Protection
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00LQB8VEO/
Extension Cord Holder
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000HEHDZY/
Extension Cord with Lighted Ends, 14/3, 100-Feet, 13-Amp
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000BQOOS2/


Join ChargePoint so that you can access their charging stations - add some money to your account - download the app to monitor your account:
www.chargepoint.com/join/


Bookmark these URLS to see where all the charging stations are:
https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html
www.caa.ca/evstations/

Kick the gas habit!:)

This is very helpful, thanks for the info
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I actually took over a 2014 lease in Toronto a year ago. It was absolutely the deal to take. The car was 11 months old with only 5K on the odometer and a 18K/year allowance, so I got two years and almost 50K at my disposal. The rate was CAD $113+tax. I split the guy's original downpayment (putting me a bit over $1K) and he took care of the transfer fees.
wow, looks like my deal is similar to yours, only difference is i paid $500 more for the winter tires.
 

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That's completely wrong, too!
How would the breaker know the temperature of the cable?
Wrong with a vengeance!

Actually, a shorted load connected to an excessively long or under-gauge extension cord will prevent the breaker from tripping at all. The resistance in the extension cord will prevent the current from reaching the breaker's trip current even as the extension cord itself is melting and going up in flames.
 
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