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Seen a lot of posts on the cost of the Smart ED high voltage battery.

There are quotes from MB parts departments running north of $20K for a replacement battery. However, no one needs to actually purchase one, as the current generation of Smart ED is warranted for the next 4 years, so the cost is effectively zero today (no cost to replace). Who knows what the cost will be 4 years from now?

The new news is that Nissan has a new $5K replacement battery program. Obviously, the major driver of this program is that Nissan made a bit of a hash of their "no need for battery temperature conditioning" statements a few years ago when they introduced the car. The replacement is a more heat resistant chemistry, and so this program has value as a marketing and comfort providing exercise.

Volt replacement battery variously listed at $3K to $30K with no firm real world numbers that I've been able to find.

Tesla has said their battery is about 1/4 the cost of the car, which would put it around $25K for 85KWh. That is their production cost, not what they would charge for a replacement. And who needs replacement with the very substantial warrantee they provide?


As for the Smart.

The production run of the Smart ED based on the 451 chassis is said to run in to 2016 before switching over to the 453 based car.

From 2013 to 2016 there will be around 40,000 Smart ED models sold world wide.

Daimler bought out the Evonik share of the battery supplier business this year, after Li-Tec invested 100M euro.

So 100M/40K = 2500 euros per battery just to break even on the cost of the investment, not including the cost of materials or manufacture. That seems like a reasonable investment compared to purchasing the batteries completely from a third party, as they are at least getting value out of a technology partnership and learning a lot in the process. Remember a few hundred million to Daimler is a drop in the bucket. Their F1 program runs in the many hundreds of millions, which is mostly a marketing exercise after all, not a lot of that tech gets back into their sedans.

I presume Daimler using Tesla for the B-Class battery and drive train is their way of hedging their EV investments and to learn more about the newer Tesla technology compared to what they have developed with their European partners for the Smart ED. In reality, the battery and management systems in the Smart ED are sophisticated, and world class, especially in contrast to the Leaf which does not control the temperature in its high voltage battery. Daimler could have used it in the B class, so there must have been a compelling reason to go with Tesla.

Discuss.:nerd:
 

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High voltage battery replacement cost

I had my 2014 in yesterday for its first annual service. They replaced no parts (I had changed the cabin air filter myself) and the cost was $112. While there I asked the parts guy for the cost of the battery. He said the part number was 789 340 7201 and the list price was $26,800.
 

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While there I asked the parts guy for the cost of the battery. He said the part number was 789 340 7201 and the list price was $26,800.
I got a similar quote from my local smart center. Given that the MSRP for my car was just a bit over that amount and I paid something like $7K less than that before all of the various federal tax credits and BAP, I think that's absurd.

I plan to drive my 2015 smart ED until it will drive no more. I hope it last the 10 years that the BAP program says it will. Wish me luck!
 

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Hi,
I saw a Smart for two electric drive, 2014 year with 10k miles. The price is just $4200. Is that a good buy. The price seems to be too good to be true. Can someone suggest me. Thanks.
 

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Hi,
I saw a Smart for two electric drive, 2014 year with 10k miles. The price is just $4200. Is that a good buy. The price seems to be too good to be true. Can someone suggest me. Thanks.
It's that cheap. It likely has a leased battery, add $5k to the cost to buy out the battery or resume the $960/year ($80/mo) lease.
 

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Hi All,
I have purchased a 2013 Smart fortwo ED from the Ride Safely auction in non-running condition, based on a Mercedes Benz/ Smart dealership's service manager telling me that "no problem" - that car is still on factory warranty, and whatever it takes, M B will tow it to our shop and get it running for you. So, within 12 hours, it was picked up at the auction yard in Las Vegas and transported to the dealership, Walters Automotive, in Riverside, CA. After a couple of days it was brought into their shop and diagnosed as needing the 12V battery, as well as the traction battery. The warranty claim was submitted to MB America in NJ, who bounced the request, and told me my only option was to purchase a $147 12V battery, and a $37,900 traction battery to make the car well. When asked why the warranty was reneged, the dealership told me that the "customer/previous owner/leasee" had failed to bring the car in for required service. The history of the car, as I can trace it, was that it was leased to a woman from Laguna Niguel, CA, turned into Daimler Trust on Oct. 19, 2016, and then sold to Uncle Max's Auto Sales and Leasing on Dec. 30, 2016, with 20,996 miles on it. It appeared at the Fletcher-Jones Motorcars dealership in Las Vegas on April 24, 2017, diagnosed as needing the main traction battery, and MB rejected the claim at that time. From there, it got to the CoPart Auctions site in Las Vegas, and that is where Ride Safely purchased it for me, on April 28th, 2017. (When the 12V battery was boosted/charged at Walters in Riverside, the mileage read 21,017.

The service manager at Fletcher-Jones reasoned the car had not been in for its regular service, that the battery had not been kept up to charge while not actively owned, and when the battery voltage is allowed to get too low, an internal "switch" in the battery flipped over, and the battery then became essentially dead.
I chatted with Matthew today at Mercedes customer care, and he told me there is an active campaign on this VIN # car for a battery maintenance system (BMS) software upgrade. Have any of you heard about this?

To me, it is morally unconscionable and disgusting that a worldwide, alleged world class vehicle manufacturer such as Mercedes Benz, will not support their product while still on warranty. I was once a Mercedes Technician in Framingham, MA in the '70's, and we had a flag on our repair orders for "Vehicle Down". This meant that the vehicle was given priority queue in the service department, and any necessary part would be shipped overnight to get the car on the road by the next day. The customer was always given a new loaner vehicle to ease the inconvenience while her/his car was under repair. Obviously, Mercedes Benz/Daimler needs to revisit the roots which made them (once) great. And you know, I am not impressed with how many F1 races they might have won; as they need to be taking care of their customer, Number 1. If they truly want to be a world leader manufacturer of EV's, then they need to get with the program figure out how a perfectly good battery failed in 5 months, and do the right thing.

I continue my daily phone calls to the dealership, and to the Attorney's General offices in Vermont, Nevada, and California, as well as MB claims in NJ, and the California DMV fraud detection unit. I will also be talking to the Daimler AG tech department in Germany to see if they can tell me how to un-flip the "switch". All this said, assuming the worst-case scenario and Mercedes continues to renege on their warranty, I would be interested in hearing about any used batteries out there, perhaps out of a wrecked vehicle.

Thank for having, and receiving posts to this forum. It is great to be a member!

BobAt2
Plainfield, VT
 

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M-B should be well within their rights to deny the warranty claim, the previous owner neglected the car, it was not properly serviced. As a good object lesson, buying a non running ED is rather foolish, without doing research into the current warranty status of the vehicle, with details in writing.
 

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Car was on the Daimler Trust lease plan for almost three years, so one might assume that it was regularly serviced. Address on the title is from a well-heeled neighborhood. Reading the warranty or owner's manual does not mention the battery needing to be treated especially carefully...for example, what would happen if the owner was a snow bird and spent four months of the year at a vacation home. Would the battery just check out?
and the service adviser at Walters either lied or didn't research the car history by VIN, which she claimed to do.
I would gladly drop $5K for a new or reconditioned battery, but there is no hint of good will from MB. Apparently they do not take enough pride in their product to want to keep it on the road.
Bob
 

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M-B should not have to warranty neglected cars, a line has to be drawn somewhere. You are on the wrong side of the line.

Others have had no issue getting faulty traction batteries replaced under warranty but they serviced the car as the battery lease program dictates. You need to read through those documents.

If you were lied to, it become a civil matter between you and them. Get your money back for the car and buy an operational ED.

You have consumer protection laws in the US make use of them.

There are procedures for storing the ED for extended periods of time.
 

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This sucks!
I understand you're hurting. You thought you got a wonderful new ride, and now this!

However...

If you were lied to, it become a civil matter between you and them. Get your money back for the car and buy an operational ED.
+1
Your beef is with the people who falsely told you it would be covered, not with the people who maybe rightly refusing coverage. What's the lemon law in your state?

Interesting price point for the battery, though! Thanks for posting! That's 2x the previous rumor number:eek:
 

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The car as a lease very likely had the BAP attached. The BAP contract clearly states that the battery MUST be taken in for a yearly no cost service and check. Looks like the previous owner did not live up to his/her contract, so I'd say MB is well within their rights to deny coverage. The battery is covered under the ten year BAP contract and not the four year factory warranty.

Len
2014 EV coupe 11,500 miles
2014 EV cabriolet 51 miles
 

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Maybe you can sell the "dead" HV battery to some EV enthusiast or a local college. I'd love to see a tear down and diagnostics. :nerd:
 

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This could potentially get even uglier for you unfortunately. First, the four year warranty could be expired by now for a 2013 (my 2014 only has 9 months left under it's 4 year warranty), so it could be a moot point as regards that warranty. Second, if it has BAP attached, MBFS could start demanding you either pay $80 per month or a $5000 buyout for BAP. Doesn't matter if the battery is dead; the contract is still in force. The same is true if an automobile accident destroys the battery; MBFS is not going to replace the battery under BAP while you are still obligated to pay BAP (or more likely your insurance company will pay). Similarly if you drive the battery through a flood and it is dead, or if you stick a cherry bomb in it and it is dead; negligence on your part does not obligate MBFS to replace your battery nor does it relieve you of your BAP commitments. Fortunately, based on recent evidence, it appears BAP contracts are no longer enforced if you buy an off lease ED, unless you signed BAP paperwork (in which case things could potentially get much worse).

In other words, poking the big old MB with a stick could make a bad situation worse with you ending up having to actually pay more money.

Have you been paying the BAP monthly payments? Did the previous owner or dealership? If not, this would be another reason for MBFS to deny a claim under BAP.
 

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HV Battery Interface

Moving slightly tangentially on the topic of the HV battery...

The battery presumably has a number of connections:
  • Coolant In
  • Coolant Out
  • HV DC + and -
  • Canbus connection ?
Does anyone know more about these? The interface seems simple enough that, with some effort, you might be able to duplicate it.
 

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Just talked with the parts manager at the dealership where my car is sleeping and the price is now at a mere $29,200. Still not within my range. I have tried to contact Accumotive today to inquire if there is a cure - perhaps with the mystery switch?
Bob
 

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There used to be a different part number with a $9000 price tag. its subsequently disappeared from the MB database.

Also, for what its worth, I recently bought a "dehydrator" cartridge for C$30 and its priced at U$60 in the database. Looks like someone is making a markup.

I think it is pretty clear at this point that MB plans to starve support for ED battery replacement. So while this shouldn't be a big issue, because failures are rare, it is a consideration for any owners.

Looking at it another way, most EDs on the second hand market have a price tag much less than half of $29,000. So there is another cheaper source of batteries. Plus you get a whole car load of free replacement parts in the deal.

Looking at it another way, every day we drive the ED it saves us about $9. So in about four-five years the car will have cost us net $0. Which is better than any car I've ever owned, by a margin of about, ummm, a Smart ForTwo ED.
 

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I agree with the consensus that they dont need to honor the warranty. Buying a non-running EV, unless you know exactly what you are getting into, is a very bad idea! I hope you didn't pay too much - it was only worth a few hundred dollars. You can still try to part it out on ebay...

The annoying thing about the cost of the traction batteries is that it is treated basically as a sealed, un-rebuildable unit. All that could actually be wrong is an internal relay or PC board - but they replace the whole pack at that absolutely astronomical price nonetheless.

But regarding battery pack neglect, except for maybe the LiFe(or Mn)PO4 chemistry, a lithium battery that gets over-discharged below a certain point becomes a firebomb if an attempt is made to recharge it - so they have a system to "brick" the pack in a non-recoverable way if any cell voltage goes below below a critical point. (Small electronic devices have this too.) Discharging the main pack down to this point is made very difficult - simply driving the car down to zero and the car stopping won't do it - a reserve is maintained. I suppose driving the battery pack down to zero - then keeping out un-pluggged-in in the cold 0F/-20C weather for a couple weeks probably would do it. Or, the pack could have had a internal short - detecting such a thing in time being the important purpose of the annual traction pack check.
 

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Hi All,
It has been a while, since the end of April, when I originally purchased the car. I finally tracked down the original lessor, Valentina N., who said she had worked for an attorney, and her mantra was to document everything, which she had in the care of her Smart ED. She was able to send me scans of all the service records, (including mandatory annual battery checks), for all but one of her service records. That was at Laguna Niguel in California, and they could not release the service record to the Smart dealer in Latham NY, because of customer confidentiality issues – i.e., they could only release the record to MBUSA or to the customer herself. I did talk to the service manager in Laguna Niguel, who assured me that the 2014 service was performed, which included the battery check! As MBUSA customer service was only lukewarm about researching this, due to already bouncing the claim twice before, I persisted and asked Valentina to procure the record and then email it to me. This she did and I forwarded it to Dan R., service manager in Latham. After a final test in Latham to verify the failure of the battery, Dan resent the claim to MBUSA, and they approved it! What a joy!
Soooo, the new battery has been custom manufactured in Germany, shipped to the US, and is now under the same roof as my car, at Keeler Motorcars in Latham, NY. However, the battery, through all this time is still significantly charged, and must be discharged fully for it to be safe for a technician to replace it with the new one. The discharging technician has to be specially-certified by MBUSA, have a dedicated laptop, a discrete password, and only then can proceed with the discharging procedure. Whoops! There is only one such tech in New England/New York, and s/he is currently unemployed, between jobs of two Smart dealers. The current plan, therefore, is to send a tech from Keeler Motorcars to a MBUSA training on October 20th, and then on October 21st, that tech can install the battery in my car. After they assure me that everything is 100% good-to-go, I can finally see, touch, and drive my car. I can’t wait, but I have been waiting for 5.5 months to date.
In checking PlugShare, the journey to my house in Plainfield, VT, from Latham NY is 160-165 miles. I like the thought of the adventure of taking public transportation down there, and then driving it home, however, it probably would require two stops for charging along the way, which would add about 12 hours to a 3 hour, 20 minute trip. I do know the range is predicted to be 60 – 70 miles per charge, but without the new battery being cycled a few times, I doubt I will get the full range. The other option is to go down with the fossil-fueled F250 Super Duty diesel with trailer or tow dolly, and tow it home. Any thoughts or encouragement from this group?
Lessons learned are that:
· One cannot believe what one reads re: product description of an online purchase.
· MBUSA and its service network are not necessarily going to do due diligence in locating car service records.
· Find an honest woman, (in this case a stranger), who will help another person out, when she knows what is righteous and just.
· Keep the faith that EV’s are good for the Planet, and are worth acquiring at whatever the cost.
· Accept the fact that automotive customer service is a few notches lower than when I was a MB tech in the ‘70’s.
· Never give up when you know you are on the side of justice.
So, the next post might include a picture of me behind the wheel of the Smart – (if the rivers don’t rise, and the winds don’t blow, etc.)...
Thanks for your support, Smart Group!
Bob A.
 

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Reman 451 HV Traction Battery sighting . . .

$10,305 - core charge = $6,930 + some pretty hefty RT hazmat shipping costs (HazMat: This part contains hazardous materials. Extra shipping costs apply).

https://www.mbpartsusa.com/oem-parts/smart-reman-battery-li-ion-789340000380/?c=Zz1lbGVjdHJpYy1wcm9wdWxzaW9uLXN5c3RlbSZzPWJhdHRlcnkmaT05MDEwMDg3NSZyPSZhPXNtYXJ0Jm89Zm9ydHdvJnk9MjAxNSZ0PWVsZWN0cmljLWRyaXZlJmU9ZWxlY3RyaWM=

https://www.mbpartsusa.com/auto-parts/2015/smart/fortwo/electric-drive-trim/electric-engine/electric-propulsion-system-cat/battery-scat

Use this link to check out ALL smarts MY08 - 17 to include wheels and some Brabus items . . .

https://www.mbpartsusa.com/auto-parts/smart/fortwo
 
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