[MB DNA]

Overall diameter can only vary front to back by about 5% or the traction control will be constantly trying to correct.

"Overall diameter can only vary front to back by about 5%" - is that to suggest that the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) is set such that it is always looking for a stagger?

Last year at The Dragon in the wet with leaves on the pavement running the OEM stagger wheels/tires setup, ESP only kicked in a couple times.

This year at The Dragon II we had gone to OEM rear wheels and tires on all four corners. Dry pavement, warm weather and ESP was insane!!

I take it that disconnecting the battery will not reset ESP?

Thus the only real answer is when driving aggressively, running a non factory wheel/tire setup, one should consider temporarily removing Fuse 11?

Yes, replacing the bicycle tires in the front has vastly improved the handling especially at highway speeds but the the overactive ESP can get your heart racing!

 

[rfernatt]

"Overall diameter can only vary front to back by about 5%" - is that to suggest that the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) is set such that it is always looking for a stagger?

Last year at The Dragon in the wet with leaves on the pavement running the OEM stagger wheels/tires setup, ESP only kicked in a couple times.

This year at The Dragon II we had gone to OEM rear wheels and tires on all four corners. Dry pavement, warm weather and ESP was insane!!

I take it that disconnecting the battery will not reset ESP?

Thus the only real answer is when driving aggressively, running a non factory wheel/tire setup, one should consider temporarily removing Fuse 11?

Yes, replacing the bicycle tires in the front has vastly improved the handling especially at highway speeds but the the overactive ESP can get your heart racing!

Regarding the 5% statement, the ESP is looking for wheel/tire combos that are nearly the same HEIGHT front to rear. Otherwise, the difference in circumference will cause different rotational speeds front/rear that are outside of the parameters ESP is designed to work with. The ESP will quickly go nuts even in normal driving and go into limp home mode if your front/rear tires aren't close in height - as some have discovered the hard way.

Now the issue of the ESP being more active in, um, spirited driving, with same WIDTH tires front/rear should probably be expected. The ESP programming is tuned to expect the typical understeering attitude induced by the narrow fronts. When you swap fronts, so that front/rear match widthwise, that expected understeer is gone or reduced greatly. The ESP is now compensating more in aggressive driving, especially when it's wet or there is loose debris that causes the rear to want to swing out. BUT, it's just doing it's job with the parameters set by the factory.

I run 195/50s front and rear and never see the ESP light in normal driving. But, under spirited conditions, it can become quite active. I did a hard drive on some wet backroad WV twisties a while back and the ESP earned it's keep for a few miles...

 

[Toolman]

"Overall diameter can only vary front to back by about 5%" - is that to suggest that the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) is set such that it is always looking for a stagger?

Last year at The Dragon in the wet with leaves on the pavement running the OEM stagger wheels/tires setup, ESP only kicked in a couple times.

This year at The Dragon II we had gone to OEM rear wheels and tires on all four corners. Dry pavement, warm weather and ESP was insane!!

I take it that disconnecting the battery will not reset ESP?

Thus the only real answer is when driving aggressively, running a non factory wheel/tire setup, one should consider temporarily removing Fuse 11?

Yes, replacing the bicycle tires in the front has vastly improved the handling especially at highway speeds but the the overactive ESP can get your heart racing!

Well here's hoping that keeping a staggered setup like I plan, 195's on back, 175's on front, using stock Passion 9-spoke wheels, will keep ESP and everything else happy!

 

[Wdhitch]

"Overall diameter can only vary front to back by about 5%" - is that to suggest that the Electronic Stability Program (ESP) is set such that it is always looking for a stagger?

Last year at The Dragon in the wet with leaves on the pavement running the OEM stagger wheels/tires setup, ESP only kicked in a couple times.

This year at The Dragon II we had gone to OEM rear wheels and tires on all four corners. Dry pavement, warm weather and ESP was insane!!

I take it that disconnecting the battery will not reset ESP?

Thus the only real answer is when driving aggressively, running a non factory wheel/tire setup, one should consider temporarily removing Fuse 11?

Yes, replacing the bicycle tires in the front has vastly improved the handling especially at highway speeds but the the overactive ESP can get your heart racing!

Tom... the ESP is weird... some of you had issues this weekend... but I'm running 195's on 17's on all corners and it only kicked off once this weekend... and I think I can argue that I was pushing my car as hard as anyone else... at least I have the 1/4 inch of shredded rubber on my back fenders that would indicate so.

 

[MB DNA]

Tom... the ESP is weird... some of you had issues this weekend... but I'm running 195's on 17's on all corners and it only kicked off once this weekend... and I think I can argue that I was pushing my car as hard as anyone else... at least I have the 1/4 inch of shredded rubber on my back fenders that would indicate so.

Hitch,
There is no doubt that you drove harder than either myself or my wife (both agressive but different driving styles) but we both had ESP issues and oddly at different times which speaks to your comment - the ESP is weird!

What suspension upgrades are you running? We have upgraded only the springs.

 

[Wdhitch]

HR lowering springs and I upgraded to the Brabus Blistein shocks and struts... freaking car cornered like it was on rails... and I was routinely taking corners above 45mph depending on the situation. I think the contisport tires are pretty soft too... I noticed alot of tread loss this weekend... will be ordering the Yokohama's this week...

 

[MB DNA]

HR lowering springs and I upgraded to the Brabus Blistein shocks and struts... freaking car cornered like it was on rails... and I was routinely taking corners above 45mph depending on the situation. I think the contisport tires are pretty soft too... I noticed alot of tread loss this weekend... will be ordering the Yokohama's this week...

WOW, well for a "geezer smart" changing the front tires, Eibach springs and upgraded exhaust has taken us from the (yawn) mundane to pocket rocket! O.K., so the only time we could catch up with Jet Fuel was when he had his foot on the brake . . .

The spring upgrade seems to have provided the greatest benefit as our smart no longer corners like a telephone booth on wheels and seems to have negated the see-saw motion while shifting.

 

[Wdhitch]

The key to keeping up with the Cornfield Productions cars is to get them on the curves... If I was right on the edge of control I could keep up with Barney in the corners... but no chance on the straights... and he can accelerate uphill like I was standing still... SR360 was a blast though... I don't think we went under 45 more than once...

 

[jetfuel]

..if we try to compare this year run to last year is useless...with all the up-grades done to the cars...the dry roads and all I know that the big difference is "seat" time..
...last year the yellow pyramid was lid like the lights on the cop car that got BrianSmart..this year it came on maybe 3 times...that I know...too busy looking at the road...also...the rears in front set-up allows you to corner better and harder than last year and with more "sea" time you all turned into NASCAR drivers and taking the car to the limits you haven't seen before..the Dragon does that to you...
..WD and Barney went by sooo fast over the Skyway as we were enjoying the view that all we heard was like a jet plane flying by...as we turned to see what the heck was that those two maniacs were on on the brakes and making an U turn to join us...
...there was no way anybody was going to keep up with those two...not even me...

jefuel...let's do that again..

 

[Pee-wee Germa]

Hi, does anyone know for sure if 205-50-15 will fit up front? ...this is why:

205/50R15 Nitto NT-01 - Discounttires.com has the lowest prices on tires and wheels, all name brands, and a huge inventory. In most cases, shipping is one to two days guaranteed.

 

[jetfuel]

pee-wee..
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f75/rials-15-kumo-205x50x15-13655/#post134400

jetfuel...

 

[MikeB1]

Jetfuel - thanks for the time-machine link. Now I know what I may do when I get replacement tires for my new DeCorsas. Yay!

 

[Pee-wee Germa]

Thnx jf, i completely forgot about that thread.
-stock 15x5.5 rear rim dimensions just about narrowest permitted for 205/50/15 and i just rechecked my front wheel well coming away with a reaction of "aww yeah everything'll be just fine"

 

[tbenigar]

I just put a Daystar lift kit on my little beast and went to Nitto SN2 tires in 175 65 15 on the front and 185 65 15 on the back. So far I haven't had any rubbing issues. My thought is how is this going to affect speed and stability on the highway?

 

[Pee-wee Germa]

I just put a Daystar lift kit on my little beast and went to Nitto SN2 tires in 175 65 15 on the front and 185 65 15 on the back. So far I haven't had any rubbing issues. My thought is how is this going to affect speed and stability on the highway?

speed and stability should be within your abilities. If you've ever driven any tall SUV with wide tires from the 90's you should have experience aplenty. The dynamics should feel really close to a Jeep Wrangler or a lifted Geo Tracker. Your top speed should read 96 MPH on your GPS now.

 

[ontheroad]

Will 175/55/15 tires fit and work on the stock 4 1/2 wide ,9 spoke rims on the front of a 2009 passion. Which would give the same size tires all around but not having to change rims for front.

 

[Brabus007]

Will 175/55/15 tires fit and work on the stock 4 1/2 wide ,9 spoke rims on the front of a 2009 passion. Which would give the same size tires all around but not having to change rims for front.

~Saving Dollars~
That's a 1/2" under the 5" minimum recommended rim size for that Tire...!!! Why would anyone do that..??? It may wallow around more on the road, and pop a bead hitting a pot hole, and over work the Bead Cords more than the Tire Manufacture design the tire for... Not a good thing for a Front tire for safety sake... I hope your not recommending to other Smart owners to do that...

 

[ontheroad]

~Saving Dollars~
That's a 1/2" under the 5" minimum recommended rim size for that Tire...!!! Why you doing that..??? It may wallow around more on the road, and pop a bead hitting a pot hole, and over work the Bead Cords more than the Tire Manufacture design the tire for... Not a good thing for a Front tire for safety sake... I hope your not recommending other Smart owners to do the same...

Nope, not recommending this to others, not doing it myself. Would like to have better handling. From what I read the larger tires on front would help handling but I will get the 5 1/2 inch rims for this. Should this improve handling?

 

[rfernatt]

Nope, not recommending this to others, not doing it myself. Would like to have better handling. From what I read the larger tires on front would help handling but I will get the 5 1/2 inch rims for this. Should this improve handling?

It will definitely improve handling and stability. See here for more info:

Are YOU a Member of the "I Can Rotate My Tires Club"? - Smart Car of America Forums : Smart Car Forum

 

[Brabus007]

Nope, not recommending this to others, not doing it myself. Would like to have better handling. From what I read the larger tires on front would help handling but I will get the 5 1/2 inch rims for this. Should this improve handling?

Actually the Smart's stock all season tire combo is properly sized for the pounds per square inch of tire patch area on the ground pressing each tire to the road... You may gain, or lose performance in the areas of handling in Dry, Wet, and Snow Performance when varying from the stock tire formula... The stock Smart tire combo is a best compromise of all these performance criteria... Yes you can focus for better performance in any one of the above criteria, like Snow tires on four corners for best performance, or summer Dry Performance Tires etc, etc, But lose in one of the other areas of performance...
Yes I opted to put two stock rear rims and tires on the front of my car for a total cost of about $480.00 when all was said and done... What did I accomplish with this choice: (1) I just couldn't stand the Look of them stock wiener's on the front of the Smart plane and simple (just me)... (2) Yes, with a little wider tire, and wider stance it did improve the handling a bit, at the expense of maybe a little worse hydro plaining Black Ice performance here in Florida (drive for conditions)... (3) Vary little mileage hit pushing these bigger heavier front rollers up the road... (4) You'll never recover the cost of this mod... (5) You'll end up with two extra front spares that can be used on any corner, or sell them for some cost recovery... (6) Now this is a big one. You can rotate your Tires every 5,000 miles to get the most out of them... (7) If you live in a Snow Zone. Best idea is to put Snow tires on the stockers, and a nice set of Summer Rollers kinda like the Smart Pic Below (Bad-To-The-Bone)... Its mostly about the Fun of a personalized LOOK to your ride...