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Discussion Starter #1
I must apologize for not posting this sooner.

I've owned this Passion 450 since purchasing it new in November 2006...back in December 2012, I was getting frustrated over headlight changes.

After failing to find any suitable LED replacement options, I noticed that the newer buses around here had lights which suspiciously looked like LEDs. It turned out, that TriMet, our local transit authority, was purchasing new buses with LED headlights installed. There was also a rumor that they were starting to retrofit older buses...

It turns out, that the rumored retrofit lights are a near-perfect drop in replacement for the 90mm halogen headlights installed by G&K. As best I can tell, these LED lights meet all of the happy-go-lucky SAE/DOT FMVSS108 compliance requirements too.

DiaLight, the company behind these LED headlights, has been very helpful and eager to both receive and give feedback. While the specific model that I purchased, and the only model available at the time, needed to be slightly modified to fit into the smaller space on the car. The mounts themselves were a perfect mate. DiaLight has since released newer models they tell me are a true drop-in replacement: HLC324CB (90mm, Low beam) and the HLB324CB (90mm, High beam).

Over a year has passed, and so have many many miles in my car. These LED headlights seem brighter than the old halogens...I love them. Best of all, I'm no longer worrying about double-burnouts, or juggling spare bulbs, while cruising out in the middle of nowhere.




 

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I think you may have misunderstood DOT compliance. Those lights are compliant for mass transit vehicles, not regular passenger vehicles.

That said, I doubt police will even bother if they're adjusted right.

Any word if it'll fit in a 451? :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think you may have misunderstood DOT compliance. Those lights are compliant for mass transit vehicles, not regular passenger vehicles.

That said, I doubt police will even bother if they're adjusted right.
I've tried to find evidence which backs your claim, but I can't. Could you please cite sources; illustrating how the DOT headlight standards differ for a bus VS passenger car/truck, and how such standard applies to these LED headlights?

Any word if it'll fit in a 451? :D
If the 451 has 90mm headlight setups, I imagine it would...but I don't believe they do.
 

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AFAIK there is no distinction in FMVSS/CMVSS 108 concerning the type of vehicle that a headlight assembly is to be installed in. A headlight is a headlight is a headlight, as long as it broadcasts the correct amount, colour, and pattern of light. That a particular headlight is normally only possible to install on a particular vehicle, is only because the vehicle manufacturers have made it that way. This one is essentially no different (as far as compliance is concerned) from a generic round or rectangular sealed-beam lamp like was used in the old days of all cars having interchangeable headlamps.

Good find, and good work. I'm now looking into this for a different application (motorcycle).

This is not intended to be a replacement for a bulb ... this is a complete headlamp assembly. So there wouldn't be an easy way of fitting this to a 451, other than by gutting the housing and fabricating some way of holding these in place.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
AFAIK there is no distinction in FMVSS/CMVSS 108 concerning the type of vehicle that a headlight assembly is to be installed in. A headlight is a headlight is a headlight, as long as it broadcasts the correct amount, colour, and pattern of light.
This was my understanding, as well. If I'm wrong, I certainly want to know the details.


there wouldn't be an easy way of fitting this to a 451, other than by gutting the housing and fabricating some way of holding these in place.
I've thought about doing this very thing, on another vehicle of mine. The stumbling point was the mounts. Maybe the CNC will help, when I get around to digging into that project :cool:
 

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This was my understanding, as well. If I'm wrong, I certainly want to know the details.




I've thought about doing this very thing, on another vehicle of mine. The stumbling point was the mounts. Maybe the CNC will help, when I get around to digging into that project :cool:
Perhaps I stand corrected. :)

For the longest I've gone under the general assumption that "if it's an aftermarket part, there's no way it could be DOT Approved".

I've gotten flame before for saying my HIDs are legal (they really aren't), hence my determination to finding a legit and DOT Approved LED headlamp. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Perhaps I stand corrected. :)

For the longest I've gone under the general assumption that "if it's an aftermarket part, there's no way it could be DOT Approved".

I've gotten flame before for saying my HIDs are legal (they really aren't), hence my determination to finding a legit and DOT Approved LED headlamp. :)
Maybe all you need now is a dremel.

...and if you go first, I'll do my wife's car next :)
 

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Perhaps I stand corrected. :)

For the longest I've gone under the general assumption that "if it's an aftermarket part, there's no way it could be DOT Approved".

I've gotten flame before for saying my HIDs are legal (they really aren't), hence my determination to finding a legit and DOT Approved LED headlamp. :)
Many aftermarket parts are, in fact, DOT approved, but a whole lot of them aren't. You can usually tell by the price. Quality stuff that is compliant costs more; cheap non-compliant kraapola from China/Taiwan/Vietnam is very likely non-compliant.

Once the item is DOT approved one should be good to go. However, the EPA is different. An engine/transmission combination might be OK in a particular application, but not in another. AFAIK.:wink:
 

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I've tried to find evidence which backs your claim, but I can't. Could you please cite sources; illustrating how the DOT headlight standards differ for a bus VS passenger car/truck, and how such standard applies to these LED headlights?



If the 451 has 90mm headlight setups, I imagine it would...but I don't believe they do.
info might be in here [but I ain't gonna read it]:
Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I actually enjoy reading/researching this stuff. Which is why I ended up putting DiaLight's headlamps on the car, as I simply couldn't find anything which outright said those were prohibited.

There is a caveat though, DOT requirement haven't completely caught up with the pace of technology. For instance, most of the rules still reference only either resistive filaments or discharge type lighting, and then there's color temperatures and LUX that you must be mindful of. Non-compliance with the latter two are where I believe HID retrofits often see friction.
 

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Has anyone here even gotten a ticket for HIDs? I mean, people with properly aimed and normal coloured lights?
 

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more so: has anyone ever gotten a ticket for poorly aimed lights?

Considering how many cars I encounter seem to point their headlights at all sorts of things other than the road, nobody seems to care.
 

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The three worst things you could do are:

1. Buy the wrong kind of HID (reflector HID or projector HID).

2. Aim it high.

3. Get it in an obnoxious colour.

It's one thing if your lights are a blue tint that's a bit different from OEM...but if you're rolling hot pink, lime green, or red, you're not fooling anyone.
 

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The only "legal" Hid and LED systems are the ones offered by the manufacturers for a specific vehicle. They are typically Not "made" in house but come from an outside supplier in the industry.

Not getting arrested for breaking the law does not mean you are not doing just that.

The cost to make something compliant to all the laws out there is expensive. Getting lawyers that can read engineering speak and vice-verse can be a challenge.

Love good lighting. Hate folks that blind me.
 

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^ While this is more or less true (exception below), just because something has not gone through the US legal rigamarole does not automatically imply that it is "bad", either. It's not quite that simple ...

The exception for your post above regarding lighting are sealed-beam headlamps - and headlamps of the type described in post #1 are essentially sealed-beam headlamps. These are DOT (CMVSS/FMVSS 108) approved and they are not vehicle specific. As long as they are installed on the vehicle (any vehicle) within the prescribed dimensional limits on height, angle, aiming, etc - they're legal.

And ... the US regulations are not the only regulations in the world. The ECE has its own set of lighting standards (which in most people's opinions, are far more modern than the US regulations - which can best be described as "outmoded"). Canada (where I live) recognizes both the US lighting standard and the ECE lighting standard.

I own a motorcycle that I purchased in 2011 brand new at a Honda dealer (here in Canada). It is a model not sold in the USA. It has a quiet, stock, catalyst-equipped exhaust system completely absent the US-mandated EPA wording on it (but it has the European e-marking on it). It has an effective headlamp with a useful high and low beam - completely absent the US-mandated DOT markings on it (but it has the European e-marking on it).

There are also many aftermarket components that would pass regulatory requirements if they were tested to them, but it's not cost effective for the manufacturer to pay the huge costs of demonstrating compliance.

And, of course, there are plenty of aftermarket components that are utter crap.
 

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I have been looking for the longest to track down a pair of them G&K headlights but to no avail.

Does anybody know where I could possibly buy them from?anyone selling them here on scoa?don't care if used.

Sorry for hijacking your thread OP.
 
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