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Discussion Starter #1
I searched the forum but I cant seem to turn up any threads that discuss the options for a 220v charger.

Is there a thread discussing the myriad of chinese chargers like the duosida/zencar, Juicebox or Siemens Versicharge and the like?

I want to get on the ball with setting up 220v charging but I am not sure what the best option is. Zencar charger is cheapest, then the versicharge then the juicebox. I dont mind running a 14-50 outlet outside or hard wiring the versicharge. Its all the same effort just slightly different cost. Difference with the outlet is if I sell the house, the outlet stays for the next owner and I take the Versicharge. Otherwise I can leave the versicharge and use it as a selling point.

So if there is a thread, can I get a link and if not, what are you guys using for a level 2 charger?
 

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I would put the infrastructure of a 40 amp service up, but not a 40 amp charger unless you have an EV that supports 6.6kw charging.
Tandem breakers can be used to free up the two slots needed for a 240 breaker. Four 15 or 20 amp breakers can be changed for two tandems.
I would run 6 gauge 4 conductor wire, along with a 10 gauge 3 conductor, to allow for a 220 charging station and a dedicated 20 amp socket to run your 120 volt charger, if needed.
You have a choice of either NEMA 14-50, (50 amp), 14-30 (30 amp) or hardwiring the charger. If you use a NEMA socket, you can undersized the breaker (40 or 20 amp), but mark the socket as "40 or 20 amp service/breaker. Don't undersized the wire!
Use the 10 gauge wire to run a weather resistant GFCI 20 amp dedicated wall socket, in case you need 120 volt to charge your EV.
Use a GFCI breaker for the 220 in the breaker panel, if you can.
 

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I’d install the NEMA 14-50. That’ll provide a clean upgrade path for anything up to 9.6kW.

(Side note: it’s 240 VAC nominal [+/- 10%] for residential single-phase, center-tapped US service. 220 is a long-ago retired standard.)
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I would put the infrastructure of a 40 amp service up, but not a 40 amp charger unless you have an EV that supports 6.6kw charging.
Tandem breakers can be used to free up the two slots needed for a 240 breaker. Four 15 or 20 amp breakers can be changed for two tandems.
I would run 6 gauge 4 conductor wire, along with a 10 gauge 3 conductor, to allow for a 220 charging station and a dedicated 20 amp socket to run your 120 volt charger, if needed.
You have a choice of either NEMA 14-50, (50 amp), 14-30 (30 amp) or hardwiring the charger. If you use a NEMA socket, you can undersized the breaker (40 or 20 amp), but mark the socket as "40 or 20 amp service/breaker. Don't undersized the wire!
Use the 10 gauge wire to run a weather resistant GFCI 20 amp dedicated wall socket, in case you need 120 volt to charge your EV.
Use a GFCI breaker for the 220 in the breaker panel, if you can.
Thank you for confirming some of my thoughts. Def going for 6AWG wire, GFCI breaker, I also want a proper n-g-h-h outlet (lots of chargers for some reason have only 3 prongs).

I had my service upgraded to 200 amp along with a 42 space panel over the summer so I have plenty of room for single breakers and dedicated circuits.

I have a dilemma though. I plan to install the outlet outside, bolted to the side of my house. I live in the NYC metro area so my driveway runs parallel to my house. The problem is, the only outdoor rated outlet I can find is a 14-50 for RV power. L/14-30 are only available in indoor rated outlets and outdoor generator inlets. I think the code does not allow for the use of an indoor outlet, outside, even if its installed into a waterproof enclosure. Regardless, I think the 14-50 is the best option, especially for growth.

This is what I want to install if I go the outlet route:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-50-Amp-Temporary-RV-Power-Outlet-U054P/100193650

I have seen pictures of outdoor installations of 14-50 outlets that are completely exposed and that's not the route I want to take.

But you see why a hard wired charger may make sense in an outdoor installation.

Do you know if a disconnect is required for a 14-50 outlet? I know a disconnect is required for any appliance connected to the power. But if its an outlet, and the charger is not in it, does the outlet need a disconnect even though other outdoor outlets dont have one, my guess is not.


I like the Clipper Creek 4.8 Kilowattt charger, LCS-25....

You can go down to a 3.8, but the Smart EV can pull more than the 3.3 rated power if you are pre warming / cooling the car...

https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-20-to-32/lcs-25-20-amp-ev-charging-station

https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-20-to-32?sort=p.price&order=ASC
These are expensive for what they are and my guess is they are made in the same factory as the chinese zen/duo chargers.

I’d install the NEMA 14-50. That’ll provide a clean upgrade path for anything up to 9.6kW.

(Side note: it’s 240 VAC nominal [+/- 10%] for residential single-phase, center-tapped US service. 220 is a long-ago retired standard.)
Thanks for the correction. Old habit.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Open source, maybe, cheaper, definitely not.

I just looked into a 50amp GFCI breaker. 150 bucks, wtf? Maybe I'll take my chances with the wife getting electricuted. I got a good policy on her. (In case my lawyer sees this, IM JOKING).
 

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a word of advice from my local Electric Vehicle Club

PAY A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN TO DO THE FINAL WIRING!!!
and check ALL local permits needed.

No matter how much you know about installing.

Yes, you can do all the actual install and mounting yourself (if you are so inclined)
BUT don't do the final wiring connections.

IF at some future point something catastrophic happens and your garage/house) burns down, the insurance investigator is going to look at the charger and ask

"Who installed this?"

It is a vastly better answer to say
"I hired XYZ Electricians for the installation"

than to answer
"I did that myself"
 

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We have a few units.

I highly recommend installing a 240V receptacle (14-50 or 6-50) as your feeder circuit.

MB OEM L1 charger from the car. Worked fine until it died. Probably from water leakage. Replaced under warranty. Second unit started acting dodgy after about a year.

Duosida portable L1/L2 combo unit that we got as a backup to a flakey OEM L1 charger. It has worked well and seems to charge the car faster on 120V if it has a 20A circuit to draw from. I'm not sure its as water resistant as the OEM unit, time will tell. It would certainly work fine for a garage installation if you're only doing the Smart, and 'fast' isn't critical. Since it would work with 240V you've got options for upgrading.

Eaton L2 unit. Solid, industrial, weatherproof, etc. Currently sitting unused, but only because we got a free charger from AddEnergie

AddEnergie L2 commercial unit - VERY solid cast aluminum enclosure. Remote monitoring etc. Works great, not exactly an option for a home unit, but I've been happy with it.

A note on the portable chargers and extension cords. Get a 12AWG extension. Our 14AWG one worked fine for a while, but then started failing and causing the L1 charger to cut out. Highly annoying.
 

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The Open EVSE kit charger has GFCI built in. So no separate GFCI is needed. Also note that the charger plug of any proper SAE J1772 charging station is not energized EXCEPT when it is plugged into the car and the car has sent the "charging" signal - so it is perfectly safe to handle the plug in hte rain while standing in a puddle or the like.

My open EVSE has worked flawlessly since I installed it.
 

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a word of advice from my local Electric Vehicle Club

PAY A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN TO DO THE FINAL WIRING!!!
and check ALL local permits needed.

No matter how much you know about installing.

Yes, you can do all the actual install and mounting yourself (if you are so inclined)
BUT don't do the final wiring connections.

IF at some future point something catastrophic happens and your garage/house) burns down, the insurance investigator is going to look at the charger and ask

"Who installed this?"

It is a vastly better answer to say
"I hired XYZ Electricians for the installation"

than to answer
"I did that myself"
If that is the case that I would long have been in the poor house paying electricians for every little electrical repair or installation in my house. Surely the insurance company has to prove your DIY electrical installation both caused the fire and was not to code before they can try to deny you any coverage.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If that is the case that I would long have been in the poor house paying electricians for every little electrical repair or installation in my house. Surely the insurance company has to prove your DIY electrical installation both caused the fire and was not to code before they can try to deny you any coverage.
Same here. When I bought this house the electrical in it was a train wreck from years of home owner, non-code compliant modifications that I had to undo and correct. Secondly, and really I didn't want to go their but, you're right. I have thoroughly read through my home owners policy and nothing in their specifically or implicitly excludes coverage from work I do to my own house.

However, and this is something I have wondered. If an electrician does work and the house burns down. Shouldnt the electricians policy be covering it? I know its after the fact and back to the argument above, has to be proven. But still. Would it be?

The Open EVSE kit charger has GFCI built in. So no separate GFCI is needed. Also note that the charger plug of any proper SAE J1772 charging station is not energized EXCEPT when it is plugged into the car and the car has sent the "charging" signal - so it is perfectly safe to handle the plug in hte rain while standing in a puddle or the like.

My open EVSE has worked flawlessly since I installed it.
Looks like $446 not including shipping and time to build after all said and done. Why not just buy one of the many prebuilt options for that money? If it was half the price, i'd be convinced, but its not even any cheaper.

The fact that it has GFCI is moot. According to electrical code, any outlet installed in a wet location needs to be GFCI protected. If the Open EVSE is hard wired, then its treated like any other hard wired electrical appliance and will need a safety disconnect within line of sight.
 

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Looks like $446 not including shipping and time to build after all said and done. Why not just buy one of the many prebuilt options for that money? If it was half the price, i'd be convinced, but its not even any cheaper.

The fact that it has GFCI is moot. According to electrical code, any outlet installed in a wet location needs to be GFCI protected. If the Open EVSE is hard wired, then its treated like any other hard wired electrical appliance and will need a safety disconnect within line of sight.
Mine was only about $320, including the wiring supplies and an extra long cable, 3 years ago. The price must have gone up. My unit is mounted of the outside of the garage door frame, and the breaker box is in the back of the garage 20 feet away, so I guess that counts. If I do put an outlet in, it will be on the inside of the garage. I branched it from he existing 30A clothes dryer circuit (which I also installed myself when I bought the house - the previous owner used a gas dryer) so I guess that is not to code for a 240V circuit. It certainly will become an issue if I ever get a car with a more powerful charger than the Smart. right now, I don't use the dryer when the car is charging.
 

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If that is the case that I would long have been in the poor house paying electricians for every little electrical repair or installation in my house. Surely the insurance company has to prove your DIY electrical installation both caused the fire and was not to code before they can try to deny you any coverage.


I posted try to DIY charger/EVSE, somewhere, and someone immediately noted an insurance case where they denied fire damage coverage due to self installation! (I believe garage burned down).

I’m not willing to test this out personally. I also can’t, (and luckily so), vouch on it’s accuracy!

Back in 2013 when we had a Leviton EVSE installed, I did not have the technical skills to install one, so we got an electrician to install it....
 

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I posted try to DIY charger/EVSE, somewhere, and someone immediately noted an insurance case where they denied fire damage coverage due to self installation! (I believe garage burned down).

I’m not willing to test this out personally. I also can’t, (and luckily so), vouch on it’s accuracy!

Back in 2013 when we had a Leviton EVSE installed, I did not have the technical skills to install one, so we got an electrician to install it....
Unless there is s specific statement in the policy (and there never is) an insurance company cannot deny a claim due to DIY electrical work - and indeed, DIY electrical work, just like my DIY car repairs, is usually better quality than one gets from a "professional" (especially non-union trades) who are taking shortcuts due to production pressure from their bosses.

Non permitted/Insurance claims - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Check out some of the fancier options from Zen Car. The new level 2 charger is already on amazon, but they also have a hard wired charger thats pretty nifty.

Home - ZENCAR EVSE 32A 16A

The more I search for level 2 chargers the more I discover there are tons that arent readily available here.

What does smart offer for a level 2 charger?
 

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Watch out!

Check out some of the fancier options from Zen Car. The new level 2 charger is already on amazon, but they also have a hard wired charger thats pretty nifty.

Home - ZENCAR EVSE 32A 16A

The more I search for level 2 chargers the more I discover there are tons that arent readily available here.

What does smart offer for a level 2 charger?
**********WARNING************:eek:

That Zencar link (above) may actually be a bogus link: I got a bright red page halt that displayed this:

Deceptive site ahead
Attackers on game5813.excelent-your-prize34.loan may trick you into doing something dangerous like installing software or revealing your personal information (for example, passwords, phone numbers, or credit cards). Learn more
 
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