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Discussion Starter #1
I stumbled into another forum where users are reporting that Smart ED's are designed so that relatively minor collisions (not enough, or just enough to deploy an air bag?) will irreversibly brick the battery pack and presumably, even with the warranty still in force, lead to a total loss.

Is this correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
If you notice, my post was a perfectly legitimate inquiry. I recall someone posting here about his crashed/disabled ED - but never provided a follow-up. Immediately disabling/isolating the battery during/after a crash until the battery pack can be assessed for damage is of course an important (probably government-mandated) engineering feature - but disabling it permanently, if true, would be idiotic.

But regarding your specific point, since I'm in the market for a used ED, any hit on the cars reputation is only going to lower prices and save me money.
 

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"I stumbled into another forum where users are reporting...." pretty much says it all. Unless they have verified information to back up their claims, of course. :)
 

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To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me. Seeing as electric batteries can quite easily go up in a BLAZE of glory should something go slightly awry, it probably would cost more to "assess" the battery for damage than it would cost to outright replace it. Would YOU want to start dismantling a battery pack that could just spontaneously burst into flames at any given moment?
 

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Nah. I don’t think so.

What sort of mechanism are they thinking of that will make the battery all of a sudden become inert? Baking soda on top dropped in response to an accident? (Baking soda being my wild speculation)....
 

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We have a lot of ED owners on the forum. I'm sure one of us would have experienced this by now. This claim seems rediculous for many reasons. Scientifically, how do you make a battery inert that quickly? Whatever you are using (baking soda as someone suggested) where is it hidden in the car? You would need a tremendous amount of it to brick a 400lb 17.6kwh battery. Also, it's a $20,000 battery pack, how could it possibly be cheaper to brick and replace than to assess? These claims are all preposterous.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wow. I come here asking a question and get attacked.

Here are the specific forum where it is discussed with specific personal accounts.

Smart Electric Drive Forum ? View topic - A low speed collision will write off an electric car

https://speakev.com/threads/your-battery-safety-system-will-write-off-your-car.12680/

And no, I did not imply that the cells themselves are rendered inert - a control unit renders the relays inside the battery unit permanently open, or a fuse is triggered. The pack can only be restored by opening and the control unit or fuse is replaced - which is only done, if at all, at a factory facility in Germany or France. We know this from some previous posts. The dealers are required to treat the battery pack as a "black box" so that a failure of any component inside the case (a cell, relay, pc board) is effectively a failure of the whole battery pack, necessitating removal, and replacement with a new or refurbished unit. In the case of a Smart 451 ED with a market value of typically about $7K, this necessitates a write-off.

It requires a collision hard enough for an airbag or restraint system to actuate for the pack to be disabled - so one could argue that most car collisions hard enough to that trigger an airbag probably total any car anyway.

Note that other things can trigger a permanently disabled battery pack and vehicle writeoff - like it getting discharged to zero (absolute zero, not indicated zero of course - see here: http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f170/high-voltage-battery-costs-76554/ ) Or pulling that emergency disable switch (page 18 of the owners manual).
 

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Wow. I come here asking a question and get attacked.

Me? Sorry.

My dad got into a car accident which did not deploy any airbags. They totaled my smart. I really hope that the engineers didn’t design such a suicide pill. The smarts get totaled so easily as it is. Should be able to see physical damage to the battery to dermine reusability, IMHO....
 

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Might be true for 2009-12 Gen II 451 ED???

Wow. I come here asking a question and get attacked. Here are the specific forum where it is discussed with specific personal accounts.
May want to drill down further into the details of what seems to be a single Gen II ED related account?

This rather dated 2015 "story" out of Europe (England?) appears to relate to the Gen II ED with the Tesla battery. The Smart ED2s had a 14 kilowatt-hours (50 MJ) lithium-ion battery and a powertrain provided by Tesla Motors.

From 2009-2012 2,000+ Gen II lease units were made available in 18 markets. In the U.S. 527 Gen II ED's were available as a $599/48 month lease or through Car2Go. Ultimately these pre-production smart ED's were taken back and "disposed of."

On Nov 6, 2015 Gouri or Alan said - "It's a Gen II mass produced in France." Appears that this one accident was made more difficult by the rented battery NOT being insured?

Please note that our Gen III 451 ED shares no EV parts with the pre-production Gen II?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
MB-DNA,

What did you write that in any way contradicts the still-current fact that once a battery pack is disabled by a collision that deploys air bags or seat belt tensioners as described in the owners manual, the only way MB allows service personnel to re-enable it is to replace it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Me? Sorry.

My dad got into a car accident which did not deploy any airbags. They totaled my smart. I really hope that the engineers didn’t design such a suicide pill. The smarts get totaled so easily as it is. Should be able to see physical damage to the battery to dermine reusability, IMHO....
Was it an ED? And once again, the battery pack, in all but severe collisions, are almost certainly still good once whatever internal device disables the pack is replaced or reset.... BUT, the only option that MB gives the dealers for dealing with disabled battery packs is to replace the battery pack. In other words, the cars are getting insurance written-off by way of bureaucracy, not actual damage.

Frankly, if such a thing happens to the ED I may soon own after my lease return, I will do some research and figure out how to open the pack and re-enable it myself. Some DIYers are probably already working on it as used Smart ED's fall into the hands of garage tinkerers. And no, it is not particularly dangerous. Even if you have to expose battery and relay connections, you cannot get a shock from a high voltage battery pack from merely touching a battery terminal or energized wire - you have to complete a circuit with both of your arms across a substantial number of interconnected cells. Of course, to prevent even this unlikely event, simply wear insulated gloves and sleeves.
 

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. . . Smart ED's are designed so that relatively minor collisions (not enough, or just enough to deploy an air bag?) will irreversibly brick the battery pack and presumably, even with the warranty still in force, lead to a total loss.

Is this correct?
By citation from The Company, smart Center or Daimler/smart trained technician (but NOT a Forum moderator), has your above general statement been proven to be correct & factual?

What did you write that in any way contradicts the still-current fact that once a battery pack is disabled by a collision that deploys air bags or seat belt tensioners as described in the owners manual, the only way MB allows service personnel to re-enable it is to replace it.
I made NO ATTEMPT to contradict anything beyond pointing out the obvious - the linked Forum (mysmartelectricdrive.com & speakev.com) comments concerning the write-off of one Gen II ED.

Subject smart ED2 appears to have been a (leased?) pre-production Euro version Gen II (2009-2012) ED with the TESLA battery.

What had been reported by Alan aka Gouri in Nov 2015 is that his "partner was recently involved in a low speed collision in her smart fortwo" that may have created a condition that tripped the safety system such that the HV battery was "shutdown." "Low speed collision" doesn't tell us much as we have no knowledge of which if any restraint system device may have triggered the
crash sensor?

It should be noted that said Forum dialogue on this particular case lasted only 2 days, November 5 - 6, 2015? No other cases were brought into evidence?

That being said, what do we know that is factual in nature?


Emergency response guide • smart fortwo ed (as of 5/2012) | Model Series 451

Automatic high-voltage disconnect

In the event of an accident, the high-voltage system can be shut off by the restraint system control unit or alternatively, by the high-voltage crash sensor control unit.

If the restraint system control unit triggers an activated occupant protection system (airbag, seat-belt tensioner etc.) in an accident, the pyrofuse in the control cable of the battery contactors is also triggered. The control cable of the high-voltage system is then physically disconnected.

In this case the high-voltage output remains irreversibly deactivated and can only be reactivated by service personnel.

The high-voltage crash sensor shuts off the high-voltage system under following conditions:

• Ignition switch is turned off, but the high-voltage system is active: in the event of a stationary crash during charging
• During driving operation: in the event of a vehicle rollover

https://xentryportal.i.daimler.com/public/dateien_altsystem/common/info/info_rettung/emergency_response/Emergency_Response_Guide_smart_fortwo_electric_drive_pdf.pdf

Pyro Fuse is located under the left seat on the undercarriage.

It appears that the (>$100) Pyro Fuse is EXTERNAL of the HV battery pack AND all indications are that it can be replaced and perhaps even rebuilt?
 

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No collision on my car and i am getting pyro fuse code and car is disabled.

Battery under warranty, hope this is covered
I did prebiously see battery crash sensor code
 
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