[SilentFortWhite]

Hi all,
I recently bought a 2014 Smart fortwo ED with a "Drive Sys, Engine Off" message in the guage cluster. The HV battery was at 30% on the SOC guage when I purchased it and it had crept down to 18.8% (according to the arduino battery health tool I assembled) It won't start, drive or charge. After reading as much as I could find about similar issues, I checked for wire chafing and sure enough, there were 3 chaffed wires(2 of these I believe to be CANbus wires since they were a twisted pair). I repaired them and bought an Autel ap200H and cleared all codes. There are 4 stored codes that the ap200h is unable to clear. (The 12v battery was low when I purchased the vehicle, and I have since replaced it with a new battery)
P007108
The outside temperature sensor is faulty. A signal/message
fault exists
C212B16
The vacuum pump for supplying the brake system is faulty.
The limit value of the electrical voltage is not reached
U010387
Communication with the Electronic Selector Module (ESM/
EWM) is faulty. The message is missing
P056200
The on-board power supply voltage is too low.

I'm assuming these codes are responsible for the no start/no charge issue.
I'm hoping someone can help me clear these codes with a generic elm327 bluetooth dongle or the autel ap200h.
Or steer me in the correct direction to what the cause of the no start/ no charge would be.

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience.
-Brian

 

[Vincent Rapide]

This belongs in the 'electric drive' forum to get any response. Please forward.
--

 

[Jeb]

"Or steer me in the correct direction to what the cause of the no start/ no charge would be."
Scott, search Community w/ keyword "brick".

 

[SilentFortWhite]

"Or steer me in the correct direction to what the cause of the no start/ no charge would be."
Scott, search Community w/ keyword "brick".

I've read a fair amount about bricked 451 EDs, but I haven't seen any bricked with a charged battery due to wire chaffing.
The arduino battery health tool I assembled shows all cells within spec(all ~3.5v and 330.5v total). It also shows status of the contactors and the DC isolation and battery status as "OK".

 

[DealMeIn]

Hello Brian, welcome to the SCoA EV community.

Doesn't seem like you have a bricked battery pack (at least yet) but clearing the stored codes will require a more specialized tool. Ones people have had success on here with are the Mucar (which requires purchasing a yearly subscription for the Smart) and an Open Port 2.0 clone with Vediamo software. Search for those to read up on further details. If you have an independent shop in your area, they usually have the equipment to clear codes if they are willing.

 

[SilentFortWhite]

Hello Brian, welcome to the SCoA EV community.

Doesn't seem like you have a bricked battery pack (at least yet) but clearing the stored codes will require a more specialized tool. Ones people have had success on here with are the Mucar (which requires purchasing a yearly subscription for the Smart) and an Open Port 2.0 clone with Vediamo software. Search for those to read up on further details. If you have an independent shop in your area, they usually have the equipment to clear codes if they are willing.

Thank you, I've been lurking for a few months and bought the 2014 451 ED I have about a month ago.
That is my diagnosis as well, the previous owner said the car stopped working while driving(which is consistent with the wire chaffing I found)
The main reason I mentioned the ELM327 and the autel device, is because I saw a thread where @Jmk2020 mentioned it's possible to reset any codes with an elm327 device if you know the CAN address and the right command.

If I can't reset the codes with commands. My plan is to buy a better scan tool, I'll look at the two options you mentioned. It's sort of a ticking clock at this point before the battery bricks itself, but I think I have roughly 60 days left to get it to charge before that happens.(I'm out of town for a few days so I won't be able to work on it until I get back)

 

[hallcp]

Remove the 12 volt battery before leaving the car unattended. The bricking occurs when the traction battery exhausts itself trying to maintain the 12V battery. Just disconnect the 12V battery and you should be OK. At least that's what I've gleaned from the forum. I live in fear of bricking but have no first hand experience. I have seen my 12V battery drain to 1 volt in just 4-5 days, now I watch it like a hawk and try to drive and charge the car regularly.

 

[SilentFortWhite]

Remove the 12 volt battery before leaving the car unattended. The bricking occurs when the traction battery exhausts itself trying to maintain the 12V battery. Just disconnect the 12V battery and you should be OK. At least that's what I've gleaned from the forum. I live in fear of bricking but have no first hand experience. I have seen my 12V battery drain to 1 volt in just 4-5 days, now I watch it like a hawk and try to drive and charge the car regularly.

Good info, I did disconnect the 12v battery and HV disconnect plug under the dash on the drivers side to try to isolate the HV battery as much as possible to reduce any phantom drain.
I might install a 12v battery monitor once I get it going just to be safe.

 

[Jmk2020]

OK, maybe time to comment and add some knowledge.
It seems you solved already some but not all issues with the supply issue.
The external Tempsensor prevent from charging if dead or broken wiring.
The Vacuum pump could be one of the fuses located close to the 12V battery in the 12V battery compartment on co-pilot side.

The ELM327 command is true if you know what and how to do.
More easy is really Xentry/DAS Pass Thru version with a Jtag J2534 Device like the really cheap chinese clone of an OpenPort V2.0.
I prefer the Vediamo V4.2.2 tool chain as with this you could deeper investigate the rootcauses.

If you really want go the hard ELM327 way, you need to switch to UDS Protocol (only the better ELM327 clones support this) and command to communicate to each separate ECU in the system.
Then you best enter the extended Mode and after you clear the faulure entries in ECU before you disconnect and go on with the next ECU.

 

[sokoloff]

Not likely the problem with your car in this instance, but at some point you should make sure that you have the had the computer update done. Your arduino unit has a line in it that should say SW:2014/18/0. That's the latest update and I believe the only one. That should be a free service at a dealer, but of course you have to get the car there.

Len

 

[SilentFortWhite]

OK, maybe time to comment and add some knowledge.
It seems you solved already some but not all issues with the supply issue.
The external Tempsensor prevent from charging if dead or broken wiring.
The Vacuum pump could be one of the fuses located close to the 12V battery in the 12V battery compartment on co-pilot side.

The ELM327 command is true if you know what and how to do.
More easy is really Xentry/DAS Pass Thru version with a Jtag J2534 Device like the really cheap chinese clone of an OpenPort V2.0.
I prefer the Vediamo V4.2.2 tool chain as with this you could deeper investigate the rootcauses.

If you really want go the hard ELM327 way, you need to switch to UDS Protocol (only the better ELM327 clones support this) and command to communicate to each separate ECU in the system.
Then you best enter the extended Mode and after you clear the faulure entries in ECU before you disconnect and go on with the next ECU.

Great, I will check the external temperature sensor wiring and the fuses near the battery for the vaccuum pump to verify(although I believe these codes are either from a low 12v battery previously or the damaged wiring I found)
I have ordered a Mucar V06 to try to reset the stored codes.

 

[SilentFortWhite]

Not likely the problem with your car in this instance, but at some point you should make sure that you have the had the computer update done. Your arduino unit has a line in it that should say SW:2014/18/0. That's the latest update and I believe the only one. That should be a free service at a dealer, but of course you have to get the car there.

Len

I was able to verify that line with the arduino. It does say SW:2014/18/0.
Is there an official description of exactly what the difference is between that software version and the prior versions?

 

[sokoloff]

Good - you have the only update that ever has come out AFAIK. What exactly it corrected has never been reported AFAIK. There is a feeling that it was supposed to somehow help fix the "bricking" issue when the 12v battery bit the dust. That's only a supposition though. Maybe Jmk2020 has more info?

Len

 

[Jmk2020]

To be honest, the 2014/18/0 firmware version is not protecting you against the Battery brick issue.
There are even 2 more failure codes which lock the battery, which could easy be reset on old versions.

Maybe you could copy the whole bmsdiag report to this thread.
Would be interesting to get some more details about the battery status.

Never the less i would prefer an openport plus vediamo or xentry installation istead a mucar v06.
It can do more and is even cheaper

 

[SilentFortWhite]

To be honest, the 2014/18/0 firmware version is not protecting you against the Battery brick issue.
There are even 2 more failure codes which lock the battery, which could easy be reset on old versions.

Maybe you could copy the whole bmsdiag report to this thread.
Would be interesting to get some more details about the battery status.

Never the less i would prefer an openport plus vediamo or xentry installation istead a mucar v06.
It can do more and is even cheaper

My goal is to get the car charging and driving before the battery bricks itself.
I received the Mucar V06 today and was able to see more codes and clear all codes except 3.
The report for the three remaining codes is attached.
I'll post the BMS diag below from my phone.

 

[SilentFortWhite]

sorry for the format of the images, i used a serial monitor on my android phone since i didn't have a laptop available.

 

[SilentFortWhite]

 

[DealMeIn]

The bms issue looks like some scrambled data. Can you go through the car menu and see what it has for the charge and depart time? You might be able to reset the data that way or through the MUCAR.

Your 12V battery level is too low, you should have it on an external charger to avoid the car wasting power recharging it

 

[SilentFortWhite]

The bms issue looks like some scrambled data. Can you go through the car menu and see what it has for the charge and depart time? You might be able to reset the data that way or through the MUCAR.

Your 12V battery level is too low, you should have it on an external charger to avoid the car wasting power recharging it

The BMS diagnostic screenshot(with low 12v) were taken previously (~ a week ago), the 12v battery has since been replaced(i've also been disconnecting the negative terminal anytime i'm not actively troubleshooting) and the codes in the PDF were recorded today.
The charge and depart time in the cluster was set to 0700, although it was set to "charge now"

 

[Jmk2020]

Fully agree with DealMeIn.
You should immediatly charge the 12V as there are already some failures indicated in this direction.
Only the precharge to long is not really got.
Because this shows there is an issue on the HV DC bus on some of the connected components.

You could maybe check the HV connector connected to the PTC above the 12V battery compartment.

Other option could be an hw defect of the BMS but step after step.