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Hello smart folks and fellow car enthusiasts!

I've been waiting a while for this EV to arrive, but it finally showed up and I've been driving it for a week. All I can say is that this thing is a time machine from the future. It has been a blast so far and traveling long distance hasn't been an issue. I did a 600 mile round trip over last weekend without problem. From an EV standpoint, the acceleration and regen that the AWD 3 can produce is phenomenal. And, Autopilot is pretty cool even if you do have to keep your eyes on the road and hand on the wheel.

So, anyone interested in a lightly used Leaf? :)

Model 3 with Solar
 

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Nice!

In the spirit of amortizing the full environmental costs of new cars, I am going to use up our family car that we bought new in 2007 first before getting an EV or plug in hybrid (preferably from Peugeot or at least PSA) in 6 or so years. The Benz only has 165,000 miles on it so far. Should do 250,000 miles before a major problem crops up. It has averaged 32 MPG US over its life so far, so it's not all that bad in comparison to the monster trucks that abound these days.
 

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An ironic link between my '08 smart and the Model 3. I waited over a year for the smart and hit a deer with it the day after I picked it up. I had never hit a deer before or since. Until now. It took about a month this time around, but managed to hit another suicidal deer in the Tesla. Both times the deer were on the run, they survived, got up and kept going since the speeds were relatively low. The smart's plastic body panels fared better than the Tesla's metal body panels I have to say. That was one of my favorite things about the smart.

I have come to realize that the universe has an odd sense of humor when it comes to me and special order vehicles.
 

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The Tesla Model 3, is one beautiful vehicle. Watching one, feature at Paris auto show. On YouTube. Red exterior, with a white leatherette/cloth interior. Seems like you can’t go a mile here, and see a Tesla on the road. I see more Tesla’s then any other EVs here.The neighbor across the street from me, has the crossover version. With the gull wing rear doors. Nice car.
 

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The Tesla Model 3, is one beautiful vehicle. Watching one, feature at Paris auto show. On YouTube. Red exterior, with a white leatherette/cloth interior. Seems like you can’t go a mile here, and see a Tesla on the road. I see more Tesla’s then any other EVs here.The neighbor across the street from me, has the crossover version. With the gull wing rear doors. Nice car.
Yes, the Model 3 is a very unique and futuristic vehicle. It's not the first EV by a long shot, but I think it may be the Model T of the second electric era (first truly mass produced EV that shapes the future of EVs). Which is ironic since the first EV era kind of ended with the Model T. The double irony is that the thing that did the most to kill battery electric cars the first time around was an electric motor and battery bolted to a combustion engine in the form of the electric starter. It's funny how we've gone full circle.

The thing I really like about this second EV era is that we can make our own fuel with PV! :D
 

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Tesla Leasing

Congratulations. It is a beautiful car. I have read some reviews that say no one will ever catch them they are so far ahead.

The guy went on to say, had Elon opted for the Henry Ford style of manufacturing he would have been so far ahead in numbers, it wouldn’t be worthwhile for anyone to try.

I saw a documentary with the guy who disassembles car for various interests, much like ifixit does for electronics.

The tear down of the Tesla was complete and an older guy did the wrap up, possibly a principle.

He had the Tesla motor on a little table and was perplexed that he could not figure out why the Tesla motor can not be touched.

The cost to make and assemble the parts was 454$. He went on to say that he could not figure out why the Tesla motor was so much more powerful with untouchable speed and torque.

He basically threw the towel in but he came up with an educated guess. The only anomaly he found were magnets. The kind you’d find in hard drives.

It was his only and last option. He demonstrated how these tiny magnets were forced together in a stack in opposing poles. Like when you try to force two together the opposite of attracting poles.

They found that these magnets were put together this way, again, stacked and glued together.

I read a story today about Elon giving the common person a chance. He is going to start leasing Tesla’s as the article stated for a couple hundred a month. Not so.

I went Tesla Leasing and quite the opposite is true. The prices were out of my range by a lifetime.

One great fact that was revealed in the article which is up to you to tell me if there is any truth to it.

He was pro electric but said, true or false, the future of electrics are limited because an electric car drops in value radically faster than it's gas counterpart.

He went on. It isn’t over after the car is turned in. It has to be disassembled and scrapped.

He said minimum the cost of recycling a lithium battery is first a charge to the manufacturer of 4500-5000$. This does not include taking it apart safely and disposition of the toxic material as well.

So, my question is, unless this guy just decided to write an article of lies, it would seem that Tesla and Smart would be happy to settle a buyout at end of lease for pennies rather than nearly retail.

Thoughts. Thank you.
 

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Yes, I've seen some of the Munro tear down videos for the Model 3. He gushed over the battery and electronics and was critical that the body was too complex/stiff (of course that might be why it's the safest car NHTSA has tested when looking at the subscores). They were theorizing that Tesla was using Halbach magnet arrays in the motors to generate more power cost effectively.

Regarding leasing, the Model 3 isn't available to lease yet. The Model S/X are available to lease but they cost quite a bit more, so the lease is also quite a bit more. When the Model 3 lease becomes available, then it will be a good bit less.

Some EV's value (Leaf, cough, cough) have suffered mostly due to poor battery life of early models. And, like any electronic product, the technology is moving forward at a fast pace, making older, short range EVs less desirable. Tesla specifically hasn't really suffered from that issue since their cars were always long range models and they have fantastic battery designs that stand up over time. The older Model S/X with early autopilot that is no longer supported will see a hit, though.

As far as battery recycling is concerned, most modern batteries with active thermal management are going to last years and years beyond any lease period. Even if a car is damaged or the battery degraded, the batteries generally see a second life in stationary storage (Nissan and BMW are doing this). Tesla batteries from wrecked cars are generally in high demand from the aftermarket for other projects. So, battery recycling isn't an issue YET. However, this will become a bigger problem in the future with more EVs on the road. The Tesla Gigafactory in Nevada was supposedly conceived with a method for reclaiming failed batteries. The great thing about lithium is that it can be used over and over versus distilling more from a salt flat, so there is an economic incentive if you can make the recovery process cost effective. I'm sure this is more work to be done here and battery tech is still evolving - reducing the amount of cobalt needed (like Tesla has already done in the 2170 cells) or moving toward dry electrode technology (like Maxwell Technologies has developed and Tesla is purchasing that company).

So, bottom line, at the end of your typical lease, the car will still be worth a lot of money. Off lease Tesla Model S/X sell for $40K and up depending on condition, miles and age of course, so no "pennies on the dollar". An early Leaf, however, you can find good deals if you're willing to put up with the reduced range. I have a Leaf and it's a good commuter, but Nissan really screwed up the early models in some climates. My car is a later model with the improved battery chemistry, but it still doesn't have active thermal management which is critical in areas like the south where heat is a major issue.
 

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Yep, NIO will be one to watch. But, like Faraday Future and Lucid and Rivian and the host of other startups, we'll see what they can actually do. Tesla is still smarting from the growing pains of actually producing a high volume of EVs AND having a cost effective, high quality battery supply to go along with that production not to mention actual distribution and service of those EVs around the world. No small feat for anyone. Most will fail at some point, but my hat's off to those who are trying. If Rivian can get it right and has a reasonable battery supply available to them, they could be especially interesting starting with SUV and truck offerings.

I actually think one or more of these startups may pose more of a Tesla threat than the incumbent auto industry who is too mired in their ICE investments (factories, patents, equipment, trained engineers, etc.) that they can't easily or quickly modify without doing significant investor harm. It will come down to how fast the transition happens. If it's iPhone like, then that will be tough for the incumbents. If it's a more leisurely transition, then they might be able to handle the transition more gracefully phasing out older plants while spinning up new EV production that doesn't decimate their ICE portfolio.

Don't forget that Chinese Kandi was approved for US sales as well:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/chinese-electric-automaker-kandi-shares-rocket-40percent-higher-on-approval-to-import-cars-to-the-us.html
 

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I have no doubt that the Chinese can build quality products. Anything can be built to a price and that shows in the product no matter where it's built.

I worry more that at least some of the lower costs are because of environmental trade offs, but China seems to be taking more care in that area. Still a long way to go, however. The US may be better, but it's not like we haven't done similar things in the past that are still catching up with us today:

Want cheap energy yesterday? No problem. Just pay $5 billion for clean up today after spilling toxic heavy metals in a river from coal ash waste.
Coal ash cleanup could cost Duke?s N.C. customers $5 billion - Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis : Institute for Energy Economics & Financial Analysis
 

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Fifty years ago people were saying that about Japanese cars....
Or South Korea two decades ago. Now people actually cross shop Hyundai and Kia other brands for more than just price.

Chinese manufacturing is now definitely on the level where it can challenge the west and any company who doesn't take them seriously may one day find themselves outmatched.

However, China has a unique problem where they can have hundreds of companies building the same thing and not all of them doing it with the same quality. So while my CF Moto 250cc scooter moves along just fine and is pretty reliable in doing it, someone else with a competing Chinese brand may not be as lucky.

On topic: My dream Tesla is still an electric blue Roadster. I'm impressed with how well Teslas hold their value. They don't seem to have normal car depreciation or tech depreciation. It's kinda fascinating.
 

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On topic: My dream Tesla is still an electric blue Roadster. I'm impressed with how well Teslas hold their value. They don't seem to have normal car depreciation or tech depreciation. It's kinda fascinating.
I saw my first Roadster at an event this past summer. I had no idea they were so small! Makes a smart look huge on the inside. Of course, the smart passenger room was always good.
 
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