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Discussion Starter #1
Out of warranty and my little smart suddenly popped a CEL over the long holiday weekend :confused:

Code on the scangauge is P0018 and the symptoms I am seeing are very similar to a severe form of what heraldhamster mentioned last year - engine surging, hesitation while accelerating, and wacky timing in general.

Does anyone know if "Correlation Bank 2 Sensor A" is signaling the Camshaft Hall Sensor [B6/1 - MB 006 153 40 28] or the Crankshaft Position Sensor [L5 - MB 006 153 39 28]?

With either one, is it possible to swap sensors without dropping the engine / major disassembly?


heraldhamster - similar issue
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f4/engine-surging-park-neutral-28986/]

MPrice2984 - part numbers
http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f25/smart-parts-supply-38926/index2.html#post437547]

Sensor diagram [p.36 of tech supplement]
billo's itibitismart - 2008 smart technical service manual
 

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Discussion Starter #2
As an update - subscribed to the tech manual on Alldata and see that both sensors are reasonably accessible. Camshaft sensor is up and to the left of the plugs while looking at the engine from the top. The crankshaft sensor is to the left of the oil filter on the crankcase itself when looking at the engine from ground level.

No leads on picking up a camshaft sensor outside the dealership if necessary, but the crankshaft sensor [1865A069] is readily available and cross listed as fitting a 2007-2008 Mitsubishi Outlander V6. Alternate part number equivalents include PC760 [Intermotor] and 180-0403 [Beck] on RockAuto.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Another small update - part number physically on the camshaft sensor is Denso 1865A070. Still trying to find an application cross reference
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well - the good news is that both the cam and crank sensors are super easy to replace. The bad news is that after replacing both, swapping out the plugs (looked fine but why not), and disconnecting/reconnecting the battery, the car is still running terribly. Same error code.

I suppose I need to find a way to get to the dealer...
 

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Well - the good news is that both the cam and crank sensors are super easy to replace. The bad news is that after replacing both, swapping out the plugs (looked fine but why not), and disconnecting/reconnecting the battery, the car is still running terribly. Same error code.

I suppose I need to find a way to get to the dealer...

Unfortunately....seems like it :( :sorrysign:


 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Towed the car to the nearest dealership - in my case, the problem was diagnosed as the adjustable camshaft timing solenoid [Y49 in the technical diagram / Mercedes part 1321800015]

Access is straightforward - the solenoid is held on with a single bolt on top of the engine between the oil filler and the alternator
 

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My crank position sensor died at about 75k. The car would turn over but no fire. The part is a common part to the Mitsubishi 3.0V6 (08-11) and costs about half as much through a Mitsubishi dealer. I had to reboot the ECU by pulling the positive battery cable off for about 30 seconds and then tightening it back up.
A failed cam sensor won't keep the car from firing, a failed crank position sensor will stop it dead in it's tracks. I didn't even get a warning code when it happened to me. All of the sensors on the engine are Mitsubishi, not Mercedes though some are only on the smart in the US. It pays to Google the number on the part.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yup - the crank sensor is super easy to find - the equivalent to the cam sensor [1865A070] is unfortunately only used on the Smart and is not listed in the Mitsubishi parts database here in the US. Sourcing options are either bulk from Hong Kong or direct from the Smart dealer.

From diagrams of the 6B31, it looks like the solenoid might be available from Mitsubishi but I no longer have the car to pull the part and check. Anyone have a part number handy?

Suggestion for our vendors out there - any chance you could offer a kit with the two sensors and the solenoid for anyone else who has these types of problems going forward? Installation of all three takes about 15 minutes and a 10mm wrench. Even if only one part conked out, replacing all three yourself still costs far less than having one swapped out at the dealership.
 

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glad to hear things are back to normal and thanks for sharing your experience.

was there anything questionable about the old sensors that would lead to premature failure? I'm not trying to get an "expert" design engineer opinion - where you've written a paper about something :laugh:

I'm just wondering if you saw some close tolerance or unusual wear. thanks.
 

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Very interesting thread. I was driving home tonight from work, kept feeling surges or dropouts of power. While keeping a steady foot on the pedal to notice what was going on, I did notice the timing on the scangauge would drop dramatically in sync with the reduction in power. No check engine lights yet, just stumbling. I may need to pick up one of those adjustable camshaft timing solenoids. And try installing it. It would be nice if that fixes the pinging issue I've been having, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The cam and crank sensors generate signals using the hall effect Good explanation here

As a result there is no way to see anything wrong with the sensor through visual inspection - there are no wear surfaces when measuring the presence of an air gap :)

The cam solenoid itself is shown as a simple bolt-on/bolt-off in alldatadiy, and it would make sense to look at this output if you suspect input signal issues.

From past experience, a good number of surging/missing issues can be fixed with nothing more than a good set of plugs. If you have not already, it would be well worth the effort to try that before looking elsewhere.

In my case, the crank sensor was $30, the cam sensor was $250, and the cam solenoid was $120. These are parts costs only.... a good set of plugs will run you $30 or so.

Side note - I now have two known good sensors to get rid of - will post on the parts marketplace if anyone is interested.
 

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The cam and crank sensors generate signals using the hall effect Good explanation here

As a result there is no way to see anything wrong with the sensor through visual inspection - there are no wear surfaces when measuring the presence of an air gap :)

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well sometimes the "hall effect" distances are very close and change with heat and time. AND you can see wear or even damage - where the "air gap" was suppose to be. I've changed plenty of sensors which use hall effect because "presence of an air gap" was not there anymore. Physical problems outweigh electronic 5 to 1 from my experience - whether it is the cam wear, bearings, plastic distortion or damage from impact. But thanks for looking MRGREAT.
 
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