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The dealer told me he needed info for "Homeland Security" WTF?

He handed me a credit application. I filled out my name, address and employer info and that is it. I did not sign the document. I didn't authorize a credit check or any of that bu*****t the form asks for.

They took my personal check on Sunday and delivered the car on Monday.

When it comes to filling out the paperwork, don't devulge and don't sign.
there is such a provision, but it deals with large sums of cash money. you get the same scrutiny when you arrive into the US when you fill out the customs form or when you open a new bank account with a large cash deposit. however, it does NOT apply to purchases of new vehicles. that's horse****e. i bought 2 cars in January. never saw such a document nor have i ever.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Thank you all for your swift replies in support of my point. I don't think that any of this information is anyones business if I am not seeking financing. Furthermore, some of it should not be required for financing.

Just to be clear because I may have been confusing when I first posted this message, I am not really talking about a cash purchase as in greenbacks. I am not planning on taking actual cash to the dealer as in 160, 100 dollar bills. so the irs form for cash purchases over $10000 really is not at issue either.

I should have stated that I am not seeking financing. I will either write a personal check or cashiers check for the purchase. When I explained this to the sales person he did not back down. I can't find anything on the internet about a dealer requiring my mother's maiden name to purchase a car. Not to mention that they want 2 references. Am I applying for a job or the right to drive a car?

I am still confused as to why the dealer needs this information.

Here is his response

Yes, unfortunately whether or not you provide me with the info ahead of time, you will have to before we can complete your delivery. I like to get as much filled in ahead of time so that it makes the delivery quick and easy when you arrive. Otherwise I have to spend time inputting it while your here waiting. And yes, this is the standard for any car purchase whether or not you are applying for finance with us. The DMV needs most of the information for registration purposes and after 9-11 the government has gotten much more strict when purchasing anything large like a car.
 

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I had the same thing with the last two cars I purchased. My smart at Mercedes Benz of Beverly Hills and my Prius at a Toyota dealer. Filled out the credit app. even though I was paying by check in full. In the case of the Toyota I was negotiating the deal, using dealer credit usually helps in getting about 1% back since they get back points from financing. After getting the price, I tell them how I'm going to pay. In the case of the smart they new up front that I was paying by personal check.

They both ran credit reports on me. I don't think that's too awful since I am leaving them with a piece of paper that's a promise to pay and isn't turned into real money for about a week. If the check bounces, then I just financed a car with their bank.
 

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The first 5 and # 22, if they need to run a credit check a SS# will be used. But have fun with the rest of the answers,

How much can we put on a credit card when buying a smart? I am sure the MB dealer has done auto repair work that has cost close to the price of my smart, and I have always paid my repairs on credit cards.
 

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How much can we put on a credit card when buying a smart? I am sure the MB dealer has done auto repair work that has cost close to the price of my smart, and I have always paid my repairs on credit cards.

$5000 was the max at Mercedes Beverly Hills, $3000 max at the Toyota dealer. I asked, since I have a line to cover the whole thing, no way, they said. At BH Benz you could imagine the rich and famous pulling out the Black Amex card for their Maybach!
 

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How much can we put on a credit card when buying a smart? I am sure the MB dealer has done auto repair work that has cost close to the price of my smart, and I have always paid my repairs on credit cards.
Most dealers limit the credit card to $4,000 or $5,000 as they want to avoid the bank fee. That might be a good way to do a doc fee charge back, put the max on your credit card and then mail the check to the credit card company as soon as you get home.
 

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They are probably setting you up for financing. The dealers make a significant profit when they sell you their finance plan. This way they can run a TRW on you and be ready to go with the full court press when you are handed over to the guy selling credit life, disability,rustproofing,paint glaze, etc..... It's a profit thing.
 

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I'd be asking them to show you exactly which law it is that requires that info. Sounds like the guy at the dealership is just doing what he always does... getting the financing info ready. If he has a problem with it, go up the management chain until you get to the owner of the dealership.

What B.S.
 

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I have found that many, MANY people are using 9/11 as an excuse for a lot of rules and policies.

I'm frankly sick of it. I have caught so many people doing this it is ridiculous. Sometimes it is laughable....when it is....I just make things up.

I just bought a new car with a personal check and they didn't need any of this extra info....and they did not run a credit check...I would know if they did.
 

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I didn't give my SS

did you provide your SS? if you did, i guarantee you they ran a TRW if you wrote a personal check. unless your dad owns the dealership :)

Nope - I didn't give my ss#. I was looking at the guy sideways when he said "homeland security" It made me VERY uncomfortable.
 

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I wonder how common this is...?

there is such a provision, but it deals with large sums of cash money. you get the same scrutiny when you arrive into the US when you fill out the customs form or when you open a new bank account with a large cash deposit. however, it does NOT apply to purchases of new vehicles. that's horse****e. i bought 2 cars in January. never saw such a document nor have i ever.

He didn't show me any special "homeland security document" Just a credit app and then told me it was for homeland security.

When I told him I wasn't filling it out except for my address and my employer's address and I wouldn't sign, he said that was fine.

very odd...
 

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Yea, I bet it is a standard form they make everyone fill out weather they are finaincing or not. I would only fill out what is required. Ask them I bet they will tell you that most does not apply to you.
 

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Tell your dealer to pound sand. I paid via bank check, and I only gave them my name and address and registration info (they registered my car with the registry for me). All that other data isn't necessary and there is no law that states that you have to provide it.
 

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Yea, I bet it is a standard form they make everyone fill out weather they are finaincing or not. I would only fill out what is required. Ask them I bet they will tell you that most does not apply to you.
it's not standard. i've purchased my share of new cars. trust me, it's not standard.

name, address and SS is all they need.
 

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I'm getting the same story in Ohio on the Homeland Security "document." Have done a Google search, searched the Dept of Homeland Security site, and am still looking but I haven't found any reference to DHS involvement in auto purchases yet. Still looking; if anyone who's bought a car recently has a copy of this DHS document or form, please let us know the number and info required. Thanks! :)
 

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Its not Homeland Security, its Internal Revenue. Check this out about "Large Cash Transactions."

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148857,00.html



quicken.com said:
http://www.quicken.com/cms/viewers/article/small_business/40081

Cash includes not only currency but also equivalents that are as good as cash?certified checks, cashier?s checks, traveler?s checks and (less common these days) money orders. Personal and business checks are quite another matter.

If you have very large cash transactions, you may have to report them to the IRS. The reporting requirements are intended primarily to deter money-laundering schemes by customers (often drug dealers) who want to conceal income.

If you receive more than $10,000 in cash in one transaction or two or more related transactions, traveler?s checks or money orders (but not certified, cashier?s or business or personal checks), you?re required to provide information about the transaction to the IRS?including the name, address and Social Security number of the buyer. In addition, if you?re a retail merchant, you must report:
  • cash transactions in which you receive more than $10,000 in installment payments in one year
  • transactions of more than $10,000 in which part of the payment is in cash, traveler?s checks or money orders; and
  • any ?suspicious transaction,? no matter what the amount.
In calculating whether a transaction or related transactions involve more than $10,000 in cash, you must include not only cash, but also each cashier?s check, traveler?s check, bank draft or money order that?s made out for $10,000 or less.
EXAMPLE 1: Gloria buys a boat from Todd, a boat dealer, for $16,500. She pays Todd with a $16,500 cashier?s check payable to him. The cashier?s check isn?t treated as cash because the face amount is more than $10,000. Todd doesn?t have to report this sale to the IRS as a cash transaction.
EXAMPLE 2: Donald buys gold coins from Maryanne, a coin dealer, for $13,200. Donald pays Maryanne $6,200 in $100 bills and a $7,000 cashier?s check that he?s purchased. Because the cashier?s check is less than $10,000 it?s treated as cash, so Maryanne must report this to the IRS as a cash transaction.
Use IRS Form 8300 (Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business). You must also provide a copy of the completed form to the customer.
 

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and the USA Patriot Act

Yep, not Homeland Security. The Ohio dealers are quoting the Patriot Act as one reason they have to collect info (and charge the doc fees). From carbuyingtips.com:

Abuse of the Patriot Act?

We are getting complaints from car buyers who have their own car financing from a credit union or an online lender, and the car dealer forces them to sign a credit application anyway, falsely claiming "it's required by the Patriot Act". There is no verse in the Patriot Act that I can find requiring you fill out a credit application, or allowing dealers to run credit checks on you when you bring your own car financing. Their bogus claim sounds believable, but armed with verbiage of the law, you can stop them. Here's a link to the Patriot Act: http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/highlights.htm. Ask the car dealer to tell you which exact section of the Patriot Act requires them to make you fill out a credit application when you have your own financing, and collect your Social Security number, and run your credit report. Since they claim it's required, they should be able to show you the verbiage (HINT: They can't). The Patriot Act (H.R. 3162), Section 326 "Verification of identification" requires banks and financial institutions to verify your ID before you open an account. Since you are not opening an account with the dealer and they are not a bank, they don't need you to fill out a credit application or a Patriot Act form. The Patriot Act form I filled out for my mortgage only asks for your loan number and driver's license number, not your SS#, and it does not say "Credit Application" on it. The Patriot Act specifically calls out driver's licenses or passports for ID verification. Nothing more. Dealers fool you into filling out the credit app, so then can run your credit through a half dozen local banks in an attempt to lead you into the dealer's financing so they can get more commission. But why all the lies?
 

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Its not Homeland Security, its Internal Revenue. Check this out about "Large Cash Transactions."
Thing is some are being told they need to provide the information even if they are using a bank check or cashier's check.. I could understand it more if it were cash, but the need to obtain all of this personal data considering the payment is secured and the person an established resident/citizen seems sketchy - especially considering that many report not having to do it.

How do they get away without furnishing a document or other proof that supports the 'requirement' and patriot act stuff and refuse to release the vehicle :smad:
 

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Yep, not Homeland Security. The Ohio dealers are quoting the Patriot Act as one reason they have to collect info (and charge the doc fees). From carbuyingtips.com:

Abuse of the Patriot Act?

We are getting complaints from car buyers who have their own car financing from a credit union or an online lender, and the car dealer forces them to sign a credit application anyway, falsely claiming "it's required by the Patriot Act". There is no verse in the Patriot Act that I can find requiring you fill out a credit application, or allowing dealers to run credit checks on you when you bring your own car financing. Their bogus claim sounds believable, but armed with verbiage of the law, you can stop them. Here's a link to the Patriot Act: http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/highlights.htm. Ask the car dealer to tell you which exact section of the Patriot Act requires them to make you fill out a credit application when you have your own financing, and collect your Social Security number, and run your credit report. Since they claim it's required, they should be able to show you the verbiage (HINT: They can't). The Patriot Act (H.R. 3162), Section 326 "Verification of identification" requires banks and financial institutions to verify your ID before you open an account. Since you are not opening an account with the dealer and they are not a bank, they don't need you to fill out a credit application or a Patriot Act form. The Patriot Act form I filled out for my mortgage only asks for your loan number and driver's license number, not your SS#, and it does not say "Credit Application" on it. The Patriot Act specifically calls out driver's licenses or passports for ID verification. Nothing more. Dealers fool you into filling out the credit app, so then can run your credit through a half dozen local banks in an attempt to lead you into the dealer's financing so they can get more commission. But why all the lies?
Great post!
 
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