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Since banks are required to record deposits and withdrawls over $10,000, I would tell my dealer that the bank that issued the check has already completed any necessary paperwork.
 

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Since banks are required to record deposits and withdrawls over $10,000, I would tell my dealer that the bank that issued the check has already completed any necessary paperwork.
You are correct for the personal or business check large cash transaction reporting requirements for the IRS. However, the dealer is probably taking the credit report to protect his ass against a bounced check. That has been known to happen in California. Folks in Iowa, for example, may have different experiences.
 

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You are correct for the personal or business check large cash transaction reporting requirements for the IRS. However, the dealer is probably taking the credit report to protect his ass against a bounced check. That has been known to happen in California. Folks in Iowa, for example, may have different experiences.
I guess if you are willing to wait for your check to clear, you could drop off payment and tell them to call you when the check clears to pick up your car.
 

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The post from carbuyingtips.com may not be the full story. Here's link to a FAQ page from a service that does identity checks for dealers; the FAQs explain the link between the Act and car sales: http://www.patriotdealer.com/faqs.cfm
After reading the link above and the review page http://www.patriotdealer.com/background.cfm clearly states that the dealer must check the OFAC information database or list for your name. No mention at all about SS number.

Plus CruisingAZ is somewhat right if you use a Bank or CU cashiers check but not with a personal check.
Since banks are required to record deposits and withdrawls over $10,000, I would tell my dealer that the bank that issued the check has already completed any necessary paperwork.
So never give your SS unless required by State or Federal law.(or getting financing through them.) Identity theft is growing so be careful.
 

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i agree......it sucks. so what do ya do? FINANCE IT and when you get home, you write a check for HALF of it and mail it to the bank. a week later, you mail a check for the OTHER HALF. this way there is not 'one' cash transaction for $10K or more.

sound reasonable?:D

P.S. just make sure there is 'no prepayment penalty'!
 

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Why would you want to take a pile of cash in to make a purchase any way? Its a pain for the dealer, and you do need to fill out the Fed form which does require your SSN. Just take a counter check form your bank brawn of your deposit or checking account. Then no form is required. If you write a personal check your SSN will be required, but you do not need to fill out the IRS form. Some dealers will pull your credit if you pay will a personal check just to protect the dealer from fraud.
 

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i agree......it sucks. so what do ya do? FINANCE IT and when you get home, you write a check for HALF of it and mail it to the bank. a week later, you mail a check for the OTHER HALF. this way there is not 'one' cash transaction for $10K or more.

sound reasonable?:D

P.S. just make sure there is 'no prepayment penalty'!
HAHAHAAH...Great IDEA Jeepster!! I think that is what I will do!! I LOVE IT.

;) Meaux
 

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I work in banking; Auto financing specifically. While the dealership may have mentioned 9/11, what he/she did not articulate is that car dealerships must comply with Federal regulations set forth by the U.S. Patriot Act. They are obligated to verify you're not on the OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Control) terrorist watch list. While I believe this is an absolutely heinous piece of legislature, it is currently the law. Ridiculous but true.

Sorry about that I missed the last page of the post when I added my comment but it still may prove useful.

The SSN is simply the easiest way to verify you are who you say you are. There may be a John or Jane Doe on the OFAC list but your SSN should prove you are not the same John or Jane Doe that appears on the list. The OFAC list includes Name, DOB (usually), Country of Origin and reason for being on the list.

When asking you to sign a credit application, the dealership is simply using a form that will allow him/her to obtain the OFAC information. It is standard practice to have the OFAC report included as part of the credit report. It is a service provided by the Credit Reporting agency. You could fill out the credit application, providing only: Name, Address & DOB. This will return a credit report and allow the dealership to be in compliance. You don't need to disclose your SSN to run a credit report.
 

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You could fill out the credit application, providing only: Name, Address & DOB. This will return a credit report and allow the dealership to be in compliance. You don't need to disclose your SSN to run a credit report.

....BUT keep in mind that if there are MORE THAN ONE "John Smith"s, then they may turn you down by confusing you with another 'John Smith' who has terrible credit or worse, is on the OFAC List.

i've always been against the using of anyones SSN as a way to identify themselves. Hell, even on the card itself (well, on my 'old' card anyway) it clearly states; "NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES".

sorry, probably wrong forum for all this......bottom line is just BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL to whom and why you give out your SSN.
 

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I work in banking; Auto financing specifically. While the dealership may have mentioned 9/11, what he/she did not articulate is that car dealerships must comply with Federal regulations set forth by the U.S. Patriot Act. They are obligated to verify you're not on the OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Control) terrorist watch list. While I believe this is an absolutely heinous piece of legislature, it is currently the law. Ridiculous but true.

Sorry about that I missed the last page of the post when I added my comment but it still may prove useful.

The SSN is simply the easiest way to verify you are who you say you are. There may be a John or Jane Doe on the OFAC list but your SSN should prove you are not the same John or Jane Doe that appears on the list. The OFAC list includes Name, DOB (usually), Country of Origin and reason for being on the list.

When asking you to sign a credit application, the dealership is simply using a form that will allow him/her to obtain the OFAC information. It is standard practice to have the OFAC report included as part of the credit report. It is a service provided by the Credit Reporting agency. You could fill out the credit application, providing only: Name, Address & DOB. This will return a credit report and allow the dealership to be in compliance. You don't need to disclose your SSN to run a credit report.
Thanks for the info danip, it does help.
But as I understand, the dealer requesting a credit report could affect my credit rating. Besides if the buyer is using a certified cashiers check, all they should do is check with the Bank, which should already have reported it because its more than $10,000 as required by law.
The only time the dealer should ask for the SS is when trying to establish a Customer Identification for the bank while working on the financing the car?

Yet, the OFAC requires from the dealer just the name, address and DOB from the purchaser to check against the list. There is no mention anywhere in the act about the use of the SS of any individual for checking the OFAC list (Frequently Asked Questions about the U.S. Patriot Act,
and its implications for automobile dealerships
)
Just read this doc from the Treasure Dept.
http://www.fincen.gov/afsaamlvs.pdf

If the dealers are so concerned about credit, then everyone planning to pay with a Certified Cashiers Check should request their own credit report (before going to the dealer) from Annual Credit Report Site for free and at no peril to your credit rating. (unless you are being financed through the dealer or Smart)

Sorry to ramble on :rolleyes:
 

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Since banks are required to record deposits and withdrawls over $10,000, I would tell my dealer that the bank that issued the check has already completed any necessary paperwork.
Banks are now reporting anything over $3000 now. Check with the bank and see, things have changed again.
 

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From the dealers prospective.

There are a couple reasons that we (dealers) require social security numbers and personal historys from people paying with cancellable checks. It is because of fraud and ID theft. I need to know where I can find someone if the check bounces or is cancelled. Also there are laws in certain states, Wisconsin for example that makes it impossible to reposess a car even if someone bounces a check. If someone will not provide us with this info they have to wait ten business days from date of purchase to pick up the car. It protects the dealer and it protects a potential identity theft victim. The amount of info your case seems extreme. It seems like the dealer may have been burned in the past and adopted this policy to make sure it does not happen again. The great thing about being a consumer is if you don't like something you can always walk out and go somewhere else.
 

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Tony,

Just to clarify your "The great thing about being a consumer is if you don't like something you can always walk out and go somewhere else."

Normally in a car purchase that's the case - we've got our choice of Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. dealers. Not so with smart - our dealers are assigned to us by smart usa, based on zip code. We're stuck and have to, except for rare exceptions, make do with that one dealer. That's why people get so upset when "their" dealer is perceived as not treating them right. :)
 

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I am not condoning poor dealer behavior or antics, however you do have a choice, that's all I am saying. There will be plenty of cars available for evreyone. If you are unhappy with your local dealer, there are three choices as I see it. 1). travel to another dealer for an orphan. 2). order another car and request delivery to another dealer (this option will be available by the end of march). 3) deal with the antics, take delivery of your car and give them a poor customer satisfaction survey.
 

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I work in the jewelry industry. We must complete the same forms if any of our clients pay us $10,000 in cash in a 12 month period. The Homeland Security Act demands it, and it is a felony not to comply. The government could close us down completely for failure to comply. It is also a deterrent to money laundering.

We have declined to make sales where the client refuses to fill out or sign the forms, or failed to provide proper ID.

It should be no problem if you pay by check, cashier's check, etc. It is only an issue when you pay with actual greenbacks.
 

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where are you from? i know when i used to work at a dealership in california, we were required to get a complete finance app even for cash deals. the DMV pretty much rules dealerships out there and they require alot of info, i guess due to rampant car thefts. sales people even had to get a sales license from the dmv in order to work. they took fingerprints and got my whole life history it seemed. maybe you should call the dmv and find out what the real requirements are.
 

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I will be paying cash and yet the dealer is requiring a volume of information that I feel should only be required if I were to be financing the purchase.

Am I missing something here?:confused:
You will need to provide name, address, insurance and DL, but not SSN. I'll tell you the rest is in order to run a credit check (which you shouldn't allow as credit checks can affect your credit score), offer insurance you don't want, etc.

#5 ** length of time: enter "irrelevant"
#6 - 21 : enter nothing or "refused"
#22 - probably needed if your state has a compulsory insurance law. You will probably need to show your proof of insurance (the card you keep with your car).
#23 : enter nothing or "refused"

By "cash", many people often mean paying by check. Again, none of this is required for paying by check any more than using a check at the grocery store would. If paying by check, you very likely would need to wait until it cleared in order to take delivery, unless the check is from an auto loan financier, like Capital One Auto (which I highly recommend). If paying by true cash $10K+, you may have to fill out an IRS form and may have to supply your SSN**I've never done that.
 

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FWIW - some state (as in NJ - mine) DMV offices require a SSN as part of the vehicle registration process, even on renewal forms, and they rule the dealer processing on this it seems. Complaints to the DMV have fallen on less than understanding ears.
 
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