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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A friend said one of the biggest differences in sound between speakers of equal size, is the size of the magnet. That would explain the incredible difference in sound when my son and I installed new door speakers yesterday. We put in Infinity Reference 6032cf 6.5" speakers, that I got off ebay for $65 shipped (thanks for the birthday present, Mom!!). I have a cabrio, and so had the 5 speaker audio - but lemme tell you, the door speakers I pulled out are very crappy. Obviously paper cones. Check out the difference between the two:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4960466540/

The smart speaker feels very inadequate, if you know what I mean, sitting next to the Infinity.

The only trouble with the install that we had was in pulling off the trim piece inside the door, behind the mirror - none of the instructions I saw for that were clear, and I guess I understand why - it's simply a matter of man-handling the piece straight up (after removing one screw). My son, when not going to college, has been changing tires at a chain store for the last 3-4 years, and so is stronger than me these days - he managed to get both sides loose. Otherwise, the guides at Evilution worked great, with enhanced tips from fmaxwell at this link: http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/fo...installation-shortcuts-recommendations-12704/

Between painting my headlights and this, we've now had the entire front end and door panels off at some point - like 2/3's of the car?? Anyway, I'm very glad we did this upgrade. It sounds SO SO SO much better. Well worth 2-3 hours of (easy) work. Oh yeah, and although I've seen some BEAUTIFUL looking speaker upgrades on here, with the speakers mounted outside the door panel with very nice looking speaker grills, I just mounted them inside. Since I have a convertible, I want to keep my ICE looking as stock as possible, so as not to attract the evil, convertible-cutting thieves out there.
 

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Glad you are enjoying your speakers. I dont believe it is really the size of the magnet though...look at the polk audio speakers for example. Small magnet with powerful and full range sound.
 

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I replaced the stock speakers in my 2010 Passion with a set of Memphis "Two Way's" and what a difference! The stock ones look so cheap it's funny....made in Poland.
I also changes the headlight bulbs to Sylvania Ultra Silverstar's and I can see better at night. I think I'm done for now...?! :)
 

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Yep, upgrading the speakers was one of the first things I did after I got my car. The stock speakers are, as you say, inadequate for anyone who likes music.
 

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I also recently upgraded (neighbor watching the whole time...) to the Alpines SPS-600 which are 2 way, and immediately noticed the difference. For once, I actually had highs to go with my sub. Anyone who rode with me before and after also noted the difference.
The stock ones were quite crap. Actually being able to blast the radio without distortion is great.

I actually had more of a problem getting the door back on than off. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Glad you are enjoying your speakers. I dont believe it is really the size of the magnet though...look at the polk audio speakers for example. Small magnet with powerful and full range sound.
I had Polks in my last car, to match the 12" Polk sub I had in back, but for the life of me, I can't remember what the magnet looked like. But I sure agree, they sounded very, very good too. I got the Polks from Circuit City when they were going out. I went with Infinity this time because in my son's first car they were just amazing, so I thought I'd give them a try in the smart. I'm sure there are multiple models and brands that sound great too. Whichever one chooses - any after market speaker that is NOT paper is going to sound light years better than the stock, and is WELL worth the time. I also found that speakers improve with time - my Infinity's sound great now, I can hardly wait to see what they're like 6 months from now.
 

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Yep they need their break in time. I'm getting mine installed by a professional shop. Don't want to risk a DIY and then messing it up.
 

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as much as i hat to say it u get a better bass response from the fact paper spks. the polk sound great. the infinity spks are good too but read the box. they are 2 ohms. when they warm up they will go up, it will put a strain on the head unit. keep that in mind when u buy them. i have them in my other car on a amp. i am not saying u need to amp them but they put them at 2.5 ohms.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
as much as i hat to say it u get a better bass response from the fact paper spks. the polk sound great. the infinity spks are good too but read the box. they are 2 ohms. when they warm up they will go up, it will put a strain on the head unit. keep that in mind when u buy them. i have them in my other car on a amp. i am not saying u need to amp them but they put them at 2.5 ohms.
Crap - that blows if the Infinity's will strain the HU, but I don't agree at all about the bass response. Unless you're talking about better response at LOW volumes, because the paper one's totally sucked at anything I could hear with the top down - vibrating and distorting like crazy. That is not better bass response? Where I couldn't get past vol.15 on the stocks (with the bass set to 0 or 1 maybe) I got up to 19 with the Infinity's with no distortion - my ears just couldn't take the loudness so my quick test stopped there.

Jeez, I have an amp, but gotta see if it does 2 ohms. I totally did NOT see that when I bought the speakers. Thanks for pointing that out!
 

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Crap - that blows if the Infinity's will strain the HU ... I have an amp, but gotta see if it does 2 ohms. I totally did NOT see that when I bought the speakers. Thanks for pointing that out!
Since I'm close to being a complete idiot about sound systems, what does it mean if the JVC's I put in are 4 Ohms? Is a higher number better on the stock head unit? They sound good, but I don't want my stereo to self destruct at some point, either. :eek:

http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f76/after-market-speakers-base-model-stereo-4866/#post354463
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Since I'm close to being a complete idiot about sound systems, what does it mean if the JVC's I put in are 4 Ohms? Is a higher number better on the stock head unit? They sound good, but I don't want my stereo to self destruct at some point, either. :eek:

http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f76/after-market-speakers-base-model-stereo-4866/#post354463
I'm not an audiophile either - but 4ohms is what you WANT with the stock head unit. Oddly enough (I say oddly, because I would have guessed 4 is better than 2), 2ohms is a higher powered, better sounding speaker, but it requires more power and is thus a strain on the stock head unit. I was too dumb to notice that what I bought was 2 ohm. I'm still looking into that situation! But you're good with 4ohm.
 

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I'm not an audiophile either - but 4ohms is what you WANT with the stock head unit. Oddly enough (I say oddly, because I would have guessed 4 is better than 2), 2ohms is a higher powered, better sounding speaker, but it requires more power and is thus a strain on the stock head unit. I was too dumb to notice that what I bought was 2 ohm. I'm still looking into that situation! But you're good with 4ohm.
Thanks for the info! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
First I saw some guy post on another forum that he's installed maybe 50 pairs of Infinity's with stock HU's and never had a problem. Then I found this on Infinity's site, on the page about my exact speakers. I think I'm okay, unless one of you more learned folks disagrees with what Infinity say's (or my interpretation of it).


True Four Ohms— All Reference speakers feature two ohm voice coils. Original factory-installed speaker wiring in many cars is 18-22 gauge. This wire, and heating in the voice coil when power is applied, increase the impedance “seen” by the amplifier or head unit. The impedance of Reference Speakers has been adjusted to compensate for this increase and can be safely driven by any head unit.
 

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WHEW!!! You guys had me worried, I went and checked Kickers web site regarding my DS 650's and they are 4 ohm, so I'm OK. I've been running these bad boys for about a year, and no problems.

I agree with what has been said here, a speaker upgrade is definitely needed. My Kickers thump!
 

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I'm going to quote Clyde from SM because it is relevant regarding Head Unit built in amplifier capacities and limits:
The JL speakers are the best out of the 3. They handle more wattage and the clarity is by far top notch in comparison to the Polk and Kicker speakers. To achieve the clarity and the required steady output (RMS) an amplifier is needed to send clean/filtered power to the speaker so there is no distortion and or the speaker is not underpowered. (under-powering a speaker can damage it in the long run)

Running JL speakers without an amplifier will overwork the radio (heat up the internal amplifier in the radio). Most aftermarket radios output 50 watts per channel. That is wonderful, BUT none of the manufacturers rate the 50 watts with distortion in mind; therefore you cannot guarantee peak wattage or clean power for that matter.

Polks are fantastic speakers and have a great frequency range. High and Low frequencies are generated really well even on the factory radio (not recommended as the factory radio will eventually overheat) Low frequencies (BASS) are produced via a better constructed voice coil and larger magnet than the Kickers so in essence a subwoofer may not always be necessary. The plus side to the Polks are you can run the speakers with an aftermarket radio alone and you can upgrade to more wattage via an amplifier. The Polks handle more low frequency because the woofer is separate from the tweeter (as opposed to a coaxial)

Finally the Kicker DS coaxial series are offered at SMART MADNESS because they are just what the average driver looks for in upgrading to better sound. The factory speakers' cones are constructed of a paper laminate and the magnet is the size of an "Oreo" cookie. The Kickers are built with a polypropelene cone and a larger magnet. When comparing factory speakers and Kicker speakers while connected to the factory radio, you will notice the volume control level requires significantly more gain to acheive the same sound from the latter at a lower gain. The Kicker speakers are not meant to be amplified and the pairing between that speaker and the factory radio is a good match.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks, smartcar111 - I guess if I burn up my HU, I'll just be forced to buy a new one. *big-silly-grin*

But I still hope that Infinity was telling the truth when they said the speakers I got "can be safely driven by any head unit", because in a convertible, I really do want to keep a boring, stock look. Anything else is asking for trouble. I've been almost tempted to leave the doors unlocked, as there is no trick at all in getting into a convertible; any reasonably sharp knife is a master key to all of them, aye?
 

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I replaced the stock speakers in my 2010 Passion with a set of Memphis "Two Way's" and what a difference! The stock ones look so cheap it's funny....made in Poland.
I also changes the headlight bulbs to Sylvania Ultra Silverstar's and I can see better at night. I think I'm done for now...?! :)
What was the model number for the headlight bulbs
 

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Headlights

I use Silverstar Ultra's, but its your choice.

Make sure you wear lint free gloves when installing, fingerprints and dirt eat the glass.

2009 SMART Fortwo
Low beam headlamp
H7
H7SU SilverStar Ultra: The brightest and whitest light. Up to 50% brighter, up to 40% more downroad visibility and up to 50% more sideroad visibility.
H7ST Silverstar: The brighter and whiter light. Up to 35% brighter, up to 30% more downroad visibility and up to 35% more sideroad visibility.
H7EB EcoBright - Your Environmental Choice. Save Energy - Save Money. Up to 25% brighter light. CO2 reduced 9 to 21%. Gas savings $2 to $19.
H7XV XtraVision: The brighter light for upgraded performance. Up to 30% brighter light and up to 25% more downroad visibility.
H7CB Cool Blue: The whiter light for style. Up to 25% brighter light and up to 25% more downroad visibility.

High beam headlamp
H7
H7SU SilverStar Ultra: The brightest and whitest light. Up to 50% brighter, up to 40% more downroad visibility and up to 50% more sideroad visibility.
H7ST Silverstar: The brighter and whiter light. Up to 35% brighter, up to 30% more downroad visibility and up to 35% more sideroad visibility.
H7EB EcoBright - Your Environmental Choice. Save Energy - Save Money. Up to 25% brighter light. CO2 reduced 9 to 21%. Gas savings $2 to $19.
H7XV XtraVision: The brighter light for upgraded performance. Up to 30% brighter light and up to 25% more downroad visibility.
H7CB Cool Blue: The whiter light for style. Up to 25% brighter light and up to 25% more downroad visibility.
 

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The Infinintys you are using should be fine. Infintity's been known for building quality items and I'm sure they're not in the market for "blowing up head units".
The load (ohms) could very well be in the 4 ish range. For the most part a speaker is a complex animal where it's charactistics do change with frequencies causing the load to be all over the place from an almost short circuit to a rather high (20+ ohm) load. Most "specs" show a rating at a specific frequency and therefore with all in mind the actual rating becomes a nominal thing. As far as frequency response of these speakers....I never believe anything that any one shows......HOW DO THEY SOUND!!!
Toolman you'll be fine with the Infinitys,......And that comes form a audiophile!! (full time in the biz for 20+ years and part time for the last 10):bigthumbup:
Kevin
 
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