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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just signed a lease for a new smart fortwo ED, will receive it within a few weeks. I'm now considering buying and installing a L2 charger for the following reasons:
- Take advantage of the Ontario government incentives 50% of the costs up to $500 for EVSE and another $500 for installation
- After this lease is done I plan on replacing the smart ED with a larger EV, hopefully the Tesla 3
- I would the option of charging faster with a L2 charger

In order to take advantage of the Ontario Incentives I must by from a Canadian source and it must be on this Government of Ontario list.

So far I found these:
EV230WS
EV230WSCT
EV230WSPCT
CS-60
LCS-25

From these retailers:
Home Depot
Canadian Tire
Costco

Shopping for a Level 2 Charger Summary Spreadsheet

Has anyone else found Canadian sources for other L2 chargers on the Ontario Government list?

Which L2 chargers have others purchased? Happy with them?
 

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I went with the SCH 25 or better known as the LCS 25 because it fits my current needs and budget perfectly. Sure I could of spent more for some future proofing but in a few years time, cheaper better chargers will be available or it might stop working all together which means I may need to buy another charger anyways.

By that time all the rebates may expire so I'll probably buy something like the basic Juicebox that can handle 60A/15kW or better, just in time for the Model 3.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's the big question....do I minimize the cost of my purchase and assume technology will change in 3 years and plan to buy again....or do I invest now and future proof as much as I'm comfortable with?

I don't think there's a wrong answer as no one can accurately predict the future.

Have you used your charger yet? Hardwired or did you have a plug installed?
 

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True, buy whatever you are comfortable with. IMHO, chargers are overpriced today, a more capable charger can cost $1000 or more. With products like OpenEVSE and Juicebox I'm confident prices will come down drastically or I end up with one of these other options.

My garage happen to have a 200A panel mounted right beside my car, so I installed a junction box hardwired to my charger. I believe in Ontario you must hardwire to get the rebate? Adding a plug didn't add any value for me as I don't have a need to take the charger with me and I could easily remove it if I ever relocate, (L1 stays in the car).

Since we now have 3 EV's in the household and one of them sits outside and that I've been extremely happy with the SCH25 so far for over a year, we added another one mounted outside the garage wall. No more fighting for the 240V charger :)

The Government list is confusing, last year it listed the SCH 25 but this year the SCH 25P? I know the "P" is for plugin and I thought plugin wasn't allowed not to mention the Turbocord which is plugin also?
 

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I also installed a Clipper Creek LCS 25 for my wife's Smart ED, and we're more than happy with it. She also gets a free charge at her work so the home EVSE is really only used for top-ups and weekend charging.

I ran 8-gauge wire to the LCS 25 to slightly future proof the run for a possible future 40A EVSE. For the LCS 25 I installed 30A breakers but it delivers 20A continuous current (which is still more than the Smart ED can take).

I also have my eyes on a Tesla Model 3 (in the future) and after doing some off-the-cuff calculations the LCS 25 will work just fine as my work commute is only 20KM round trip each day.

Sure I could re-wire to 6-gauge (copper is pretty $$$ these days) and install a beefy 50A EVSE but since our lifestyles don't really need super-fast-charging-now-now-now it would probably be a waste of money. Even if I took a future-wish-I-had-it-now Tesla Model 3 on a longer trip (say 200KM), I could recharge it back to full in about 8 to 10 hours on the LCD 25.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK, you guy's have got me thinking, the installation and equipment for the electrical infrastructure (breakers, wire, conduit, labor...etc) will likely not go down in price with time. This is where I should maximize my investment and take full advantage of the government incentives.

I too believe the EVSEs are over priced and will come down or at least we'll see new features added over the next few years. In 3 years I'm also hoping to be ready to buy a Tesla Model 3 (fingers crossed). The EVSE is where I should minimize my investment as there'll be a good chance I'll want to replace it with something better.

I'm going to see if I can get the breaker and wiring installed so it'll support a 50A VESE but purchase a 20A VESE for use on this car.

There's a risk, if I move or if I never buy a larger EV then I'll never make full use of the extra capacity.

Thoughts?
 

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Some thoughts...

How far is it from your main breaker panel to your garage? If it's a short run, you can use smaller gauge wire and save some $$$. When you upgrade in the future to 50A EVSE then your cost difference won't be very significant if you have a short run and re-wire it to 6 gauge wire.

If you have a longer run (mine was ~60 feet) then the cost of 6 gauge wire (needed for 50A) is going to be a bit more costly. Price out the wire costs for different gauges (amperage carrying capacity) at someplace like Home Depot.

Also, consider installing a NEMA 14-30 (or NEMA 14-50) receptacle in the garage instead of hardwiring the EVSE. For my LCS 25 I used an NEMA L14-30P plug on the end of the EVSE wiring harness and I wired up to the NEMA 14-30 receptacle on the wall. I used the twist-locking style so it doesn't fall out as easily.

If you use a receptacle, as long as your breaker/wire/receptacle is in spec for the amperage, then you have a 240V 30A "plug" in your garage ready for anything. Advantage? You can take the EVSE with you if you ever move (if you want).

The Tesla Model S (and probably the model 3) supports both NEMA 14-30 and NEMA 14-50 receptacles with the appropriate Tesla adapter (~ $60). Therefore, if you wire your garage for a 240V "plug" you can plug in a lower amperage EVSE for now and still be pretty fairly future-proofed when your lucky Model 3 arrives. :)
 

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I like the idea of the 50A plug and wires for future proofing, just get an electrician to install and sign off on it for the rebate...

If you decide on the LCS 25 make sure your breaker is max 25A, anything bigger is not recommended. Adding a bigger breaker later on as you need it is easy and cheap.

Our cars only draw 15A continuous and finding a 25A breaker is nearly impossible so I just went with 20A breakers, still safe.
 

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If you decide on the LCS 25 make sure your breaker is max 25A, anything bigger is not recommended. Adding a bigger breaker later on as you need it is easy and cheap.
This was my concern too as I installed the NEMA 14-30 receptacle and I wanted to make sure the circuit breaker (and wire) matched the rating of the receptacle. I didn't really want to use a 25A breaker for a 30A-rated NEMA receptacle (and 25A breakers for some reason are far more expensive).

Back in 2013 I emailed Will Barrett at Clipper Creek and asked if a 30A breaker would be OK with the LCS 25. His reply:


It should not be an issue for the LCS-25, all of the internal components of the LCS are rated at 30A anyways. The only potential issue would be the permit inspection (if you are getting a permit), in some cases the inspectors will look that the LCS-25 is installed onto the recommended circuit breaker, but in other cases the concern is only that the wire is properly sized to the breaker.


So based on that information I feel safe with a 30A breaker for my LCS 25.
 

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For the ESA inspection they will probably write you up for not having the recommended breaker. I've since switched out my 30A breaker for a 20A in anticipation of a possible inspection since it's self installed. Worse case for having a lower amp breaker is it will trip sooner if a fault is detected rather than later, but once again since our cars only draw around 15A shouldn't be a problem and it has been happily charging our cars no problem.

I wish they would sell the LCS-20 here since it's even more affordable and matches our 3.3kW charger perfectly. 20A breakers are just more abundant.
 

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For the ESA inspection they will probably write you up for not having the recommended breaker. I've since switched out my 30A breaker for a 20A in anticipation of a possible inspection since it's self installed. Worse case for having a lower amp breaker is it will trip sooner if a fault is detected rather than later, but once again since our cars only draw around 15A shouldn't be a problem and it has been happily charging our cars no problem.

I wish they would sell the LCS-20 here since it's even more affordable and matches our 3.3kW charger perfectly. 20A breakers are just more abundant.
When I tried to buy a 25 amp breaker and could not find one I spoke to someone at Sun Country to get their advice. He suggested a 30 or 50 amp breaker. Apparently this LCS EVSE is also sold with a preinstalled 30 (dryer) or 50 (stove) type plug. So I installed a 30 amp breaker that I already had. Passed esa inspection with no problem. Of course if you install a heavier breaker your wiring up to the breaker should be sufficiently robust to withstand this potential current. Please read the owners manual and consult an electrian if you are unsure.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hey guy's, great information and advice.

I do plan on having a licensed electrician to the installation. Based on the discussions here, I'll be asking them to install a 30A breaker, pull 50A wire (4 gage?) and terminate in a NEMA 14-30 receptacle. I suspect the distance from my panel to the receptacle will be about 20' give or take. I'm hoping the installation including parts, labor, inspection, certificate will be under $1000.

I haven't decided which EVSE yet but I will get one with a plug to make it easier to replace in the future.
 

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For a 20' run, you only need 6 gauge wire if you want a NEMA 14-50 receptacle (50A) in the future. Also check with the electrician - with some short runs and if you install 90C-rated wire you may even get away with 8 gauge wire for 50A; but 6 gauge wire is your sure-bet for 50A.

As for EVSEs, I would recommend checking out the line a Clipper Creek. On these and other EV forums these are quite popular and they simply just work. We're 100% happy with our LCS-25.

Also, as mentioned above, Clipper Creek now makes the LCS-25 with the NEMA plugs already attached and ready to go.

Check out: LCS-25P, 20A, 240V charging, 25? cord, NEMA 14-30 plug | ClipperCreek Vehicle Charging Station
and: LCS-25P, 20A, 240V charging, 25? cord, NEMA L6-30 plug | ClipperCreek Vehicle Charging Station

I prefer the NEMA L6-30 plug because it's a locking plug - doesn't fall out. This is the same LCS-25 unit that I have installed, but now they provide the NEMA plug which is awesome.

Perhaps one tiny advantage of the NEMA 14-30 plug is you can plug a standard dryer into that. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the links, however for the government incentive, I have to use a Canadian supplier. The Canadian Costco carries them...

Being able to plug into a dryer outlet might be handy if I ever go to Toronto to visit family with this car.

I stumbled upon this plug which looks like it could be handy.
 

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I checked my electrician, and need $300 for certificate, plus installation and material (need to add sub-panel) for another $750. total $1150 without the charger.

Are the government rebate just for labour or labour/material for up to $500?

Have you check with your electrician how much to get a certification yet?

I am thinking get the EV40.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I haven't got a quote yet. Why do you need a sub-panel?

This is what the MOT site:


Expenses eligible for rebate include:
the purchase price of the charging station
the costs associated with installing the unit by a Licensed Electrical Contractor
To find a Licensed Electrical Contractor in your area, please visit the Electrical Safety Authority (ESA)'s website
the cost associated with an electrical inspection undertaken by ESA
You will need to provide proof of installation by showing your certificate of inspection issued by the ESA. The certificate can be obtained from the electrical contractor who installed the charging station or from the ESA if the installation was completed by an employee or a homeowner.
 

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That's what I found at the government web site, the certificate is the killer!! ($300)!

I need a sub panel because the main panel ran out out space.
 
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