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Smart Battery Warranty Better Than They Told You !
Background--let's straighten this out.

The sale of Smart fortwo electric cars provide Federal and State Emission credits for Mercedes, which allows them to help meet air pollution requirements.

Emission credits are needed in order to meet strict air pollution requirements mandated for gas burning cars and light duty trucks. Both the Federal government and California have created and adopted tough requirements that must be met by car manufacturers before they may legally sell their cars.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To qualify to sell cars and trucks that fall short of mandated standards, a manufacturer may sell a prescribed number of cars which qualify as ZEV, (zero emission vehicle, with lessor credit for similar but not pure ZEV.) These ZEV credits act as a legal offset to the gas requirements.



Section 177 of the Federal Clean Air Act allows other states to adopt and enforce other auto emission standards if they are identical to the California standards for which a waiver has been granted.
California created requirements which exceeded the Federal mandates.( At this point, 16 states have either adopted or are moving to adopt the California standards, including New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Florida, Washington and Oregon)

In order to receive full ZEV credits you must, among other things, increase your warranty on "emission related hardware". In the case of the Federal Clean Air Act, this "emission related hardware" includes traction batteries, which puts them into an 8-10 year warranty requirement. Whereas traction batteries are separtately referenced in California and are specifically identified and must be warrantied for
10 years/150K miles.




All auto manufacturers were forced at a minimum, to comply with the Federal Mandate, with some choosing to quote warranties matching the tougher California requirements.
Here is the quoted California requirement:
California's Warranty for, "zero emission energy storage devises used for traction power (such as battery, ultracapacitor, or other electric storage devise), is 10 years/150K miles".


The smart Deception:
All manufacturers but one, began referencing either the Federal mandate which was 8-10 years/100K miles, or the California based
warranty standards as there own. The exception was smart. Smart, who like the others had agreed to the Federal and California state requirements, kept the agreed upon facts from the public.
In a clever marketing/ revenue program, smart brought the European BAP (Battery Assurance Program), to America. Here is what they did. They excluded any Public reference to warranties they were legally mandated to provide. By deliberate omission, you were told that your smart fortwo ed, came with a 4 years/50K miles warranty, which also included your battery. This appeared in all of their public advertising and also in the warranty documents provided to new smart fortwo ed, owners.
Daimler/smarts plan: For approximately $80/month you could receive, "peace of mind" in knowing that Your Battery would be Insured for 10 years (if it ever reached a level of degradation that would rarely occur),
rather than the 4 years or 50K miles, which smart claimed as their official smart battery warranty.

The BAP, which began here in the Spring of 2013, was discontinued in the first quarter of 2017, no more specific date is available since no public announcement was ever officially made.

The Conclusion:
It is no wonder that so much confusion exists around smart's battery warranty, until you realize that they hid their Federal and State legal obligation and then sold you an extended warranty they were already mandated by law to provide.


I invite you to review the references below and I encourage you to correct what you thought you knew. Let's eliminate the myths and misconceptions once and for all !

The California Warranty states, "All Zero emission storage devices used for traction power, have a mandated 10 year/150K mile Battery Warranty. The Federal Warranty, on States that have not adopted the stiffer California requirements, range from 8-10 years/ 100K miles, as explained in the reference above and the articles below. So, at the very least you have an 8 year/100K mile warranty.
Note: If a car was originally sold in California or shipped from California to some other State, the California Warranty travels with it, 10 years/150K miles. This is true as well for the other States that adopted California requirements.

Daimler/smart may continue to try to bluff you into believing that you only have a 4 years/or 50k miles (which ever comes first) warranty on your battery but the truth is they agreed to Federal and State requirements to get ZEV credits, in order to qualify to sell their gas powered cars and trucks. In exchange, under the law, they agreed to provide either a 10 year/150K warranty on their/your battery, if the car was sold in or obtained from California, or in another State that has adopted California's standards, or an 8-10 year/100K mile warranty if the car was sold in a State limited to Federal standards !

It's the Law!

Note: 2018, 453 comes with a Daimler/smart stated battery warranty,
"8 years/ 62K miles". This is Closer to reality but still in conflict with the minimum 10 year law in America.


SOURCES:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]D) [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Extended Warranty
. Extend the performance and defects warranty period set forth in subdivisions 2037(b)(2) and 2038(b)(2) to 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first except that the time period is to be 10 years for a zero emission energy storage device used for traction power (such as a battery, ultracapacitor, or other electric storage device).
SOURCE:

FINAL REGULATION ORDER

Zero Emission Vehicle Regulation: 2009 through 2017 Model Years
Title 13, California Code of Regulations



[/FONT] Further explanation of All car warranties:

[/FONT]
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/warranties-defined-the-meaning-behind-the-quickly-spoken-selling-points

2018, 453, limited high voltage battery warranty

https://www.smartusa.com/resources/downloads/manuals/2018/smart_
warranty_manual.pdf





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:D
I invite you to review the references below and I encourage you to correct what you thought you knew. Let's eliminate the myths and misconceptions once and for all!

The California Warranty states, "All Zero emission storage devices used for traction power, have a mandated 10 year/150K mile Battery Warranty. The Federal Warranty, on States that have not adopted the stiffer California requirements, range from 8-10 years/ 100K miles, as explained in the reference above and the articles below. So, at the very least you have an 8 year/100K mile warranty.
Note: If a car was originally sold in California or shipped from California to some other State, the California Warranty travels with it, 10 years/150K miles. This is true as well for the other States that adopted California requirements.


Interesting read but who is "I" in the context of these "findings?"

Is this a "cut and paste" from another source or your discovery?

This has the "smell" of a potential Class Action with regard to being misled into an $80 per month BAP (except in some cases it was offset by the front end "discount") and the sales job done by Daimler?

Thanks . . .

SIDEBAR - my ED was leased in CA where I took "possession" before I shipped to NC, titled by MBFS in TX, licensed by me in NC, given back to MBFS in NC at lease end, sold at auction in GA to a dealer in VA who then had it delivered directly to me in NC where (2 miles on the odometer later) I took title and licensed it again - best I can tell that means I have a LIFETIME WARRANTY! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is my research which I have provided in order to correct the confusion
and set the record staight.


I submit it to our members as clearly as possible and did my best not to ramble or load the information with personal opinions.

The research took a great deal of time and the sharing likewise.




As for your "Life Time Warranty",,,,,enjoy it in good health my friend!
 

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Fact #913 from www.energy.gov

Fact #913: February 22, 2016 The Most Common Warranty for Plug-In Vehicle Batteries is 8 Years/100,000 Miles

NOT to be a Contrarian BUT the energy.gov caveat seems to be "PZEV sold in California have a mandated battery warranty period of 10 years/150,000 miles."

And for your dining pleasure please note the * Manufacturer specification for warranty miles could not be located for this vehicle" as listed for smart ED in the various charts . . . :shrug:

While shared by energy.gov, this was
"Compiled by Oak Ridge National Laboratory from manufacturer and industry websites, February 2016."

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-913-february-22-2016-most-common-warranty-plug-vehicle-batteries-8-years100000

AND, as you noted the CURRENT ED MY18 warranty does not appear to contain any "California 10 yr/150,000 mi" language?

https://www.smartusa.com/resources/downloads/manuals/2018/smart_warranty_manual.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You have a wonderful way of creating attention getting headlines !


After reading your contribution I think that you are offering confirmation
to my post, but I'm not sure and if I'm not sure then it's possible that other readers
may be wondering as well. So, I ask with genuine interest, are you delighted
to learn what I have shared or are you in confrontation with what I posted?
 

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You have a wonderful way of creating attention getting headlines !

After reading your contribution I think that you are offering confirmation to my post, but I'm not sure and if I'm not sure then it's possible that other readers may be wondering as well. So, I ask with genuine interest, are you delighted to learn what I have shared or are you in confrontation with what I posted?
Headline IS NOT of my "creation," pulled directly from the www.energy.gov website?

No "confrontation" but rather I was providing (linked) commentary from reliable sources that support the lack of clarity (as you have pointed out) when it comes to the ED HV battery.

As long as M-B/smartUSA has a high rise office in Atlanta with a floor of attorneys, we the individual ED owners will never prevail.

Am I delighted? If my HV battery fails on December 1, 2018 and I were to show my smart Center your summation I'd expect the corporate response to be that I am beyond warranty.

I appreciate all your work in pulling the salient points together but sadly, don't think that we are any closer to the truth? Without legal action on the part of ALL smart ED owners, I don't see anything that has changed?
 

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This is my research which I have provided in order to correct the confusion
and set the record staight.


I submit it to our members as clearly as possible and did my best not to ramble or load the information with personal opinions.

The research took a great deal of time and the sharing likewise.

Thanks for your work in putting this pretty big bombshell regarding MB's malfeasance. If what you're writing is correct, then MB is breaking the law and this is a story is comparable to the Volkswagen diesel scandal! How many Smart EDs are being written off and going to the junkyard right now becasue people thought the warranty expired at 4 years?

Shouldn't you be contacting a reporter with the press and media - WP, NYT, LA Times etc. about it?

I'd also say that you should also be contacting the EPA, but considering what has happened to that agency since January 20, 2017, fuggedaboudit!
 

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Sadly, the CA lawmakers are protective about emissions. If an ED battery degrades it doesn’t equate to running an ICE more, which would result in increased pollution...
 

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Wow. I actually knew about the 10yr/150k mile for emissions equipment because my Chrysler is a PZEV. But I didn't realize that's extended to traction batteries on a ZEV. It looks like MB has some explaining to do.
 

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Sadly, the CA lawmakers are protective about emissions. If an ED battery degrades it doesn’t equate to running an ICE more, which would result in increased pollution...
To the (reasonable assumption) extent that a degraded EV causes a shift in trips from that EV to an ICE car, it does increase pollution.
 

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Thanks for your work in putting this pretty big bombshell regarding MB's malfeasance. If what you're writing is correct, then MB is breaking the law and this is a story is comparable to the Volkswagen diesel scandal!

How many Smart EDs are being written off and going to the junkyard right now becasue people thought the warranty expired at 4 years?
In the United States approximately 600,000 VW owners were affected by the 2009–2015 diesel scandal. With ED sales since 2013 totaling only 6,382* YTD, this "story" pales by comparison to the VW scandal?

As for smart ED's being written off for HV battery "failure" beyond the four year warranty - other than a few isolated cases noted on the web (SCoA), dunno that this points to a "pretty big bombshell regarding MB's malfeasance?" :shrug:

* https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
 

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After doing my own research, I'm not finding where BEV, or ZEV has any CA mandated warranty. The only mandated warranty I'm finding is for emissions equipment on PZEV which includes catalytic converter and a few other minor items; and a battery warranty on hybrids, but not on ZEV. I was all over CA ARB website. Can you send a link to the ARB website that has ZEV battery warranty info? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying I can't find it.
I also found out that the manufacturer had to have taken an emmissions credit for the PZEV for the warranty to be in place. So even if a ZEV warranty exists, did smart take the ZEV emmissions credit?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If the facts were easily accessed the results would be popularly known!


You will find the California warranty requirements here on page 192.


https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/cleancomplete%20lev-ghg%20regs%207-16.pdf


"Did smart take the ZEV credits?'
You can be sure they did, they are worth $5,000, each in the open market and can be sold to other manufacturers. In fact,
Tesla stays alive financially by selling All of theirs, since they produce no ICE vehicles.
 

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If the facts were easily accessed the results would be popularly known!

You will find the California warranty requirements here on page 192.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/cleancomplete lev-ghg regs 7-16.pdf
And if you have trouble sleeping tonight . . .

ZERO-EMISSION VEHICLE STANDARDS FOR 2009 THROUGH 2017 MODEL YEAR
PASSENGER CARS, LIGHT-DUTY TRUCKS, AND MEDIUM-DUTY VEHICLES

Extended Warranty. Extend the performance and defects warranty period set forth in
subdivision 2037(b)(2) and 2038(b)(2) to 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first except that the time period is to be 10 years for a zero emission energy storage device used for traction power (such as a battery, ultracapacitor, or other electric storage device).

from page 8 of 35 of an earlier (01/01/2016) California ARB publication.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevregs/1962.1_Clean.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Carb States are mandated to Warranty the HOV Battery for 10 years/150K miles.
The Warranty follows the car, meaning that if the car began with a dealership in
a CARB State, the Warranty stays with the car even if it is subsequently sold in a non CARB State.
The states that have adopted the California standards are: Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico (2011 model year), New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington, as well as the District of Columbia.

The Federal mandated Warranty is 8 years/100K miles.
 

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In the United States approximately 600,000 VW owners were affected by the 2009–2015 diesel scandal. With ED sales since 2013 totaling only 6,382* YTD, this "story" pales by comparison to the VW scandal?
Breaking a federal law is breaking a federal law regardless of the number of people impacted.

Edit: and come to think of it, the VW owners weren't affected at all - if fact, their cars ran better and got better fuel economy (and lower CO2 emissions even if higher HC/NOx emissions) becasue of VW's "deception coding".
 

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If what you're writing is correct, then MB is breaking the law and this is a story is comparable to the Volkswagen diesel scandal!
Breaking a federal law is breaking a federal law regardless of the number of people impacted.
Sharing "the numbers" 600,000 vs. 6,382 was simply to temper your comment - hardly comparable to the VW scandal!!

As for MB breaking the law - perhaps they are exploiting a loophole? To the best of my knowledge no charges have been filed nor legal action taken? :shrug:
 

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I ended up buying my lease-return ED. The local salesman offered $7400 (plus all the fees) which was way below the 12.5K residual. So I took him up on it an closed the sale. The ED is now mine lock-stock and barrel. He then said that I can continue the BAP "extended warranty" if I like, or simple discontinue paying if I dont want the extended warranty. I tried to tell him that my BAP was not an extended warranty, but an actual rental of the battery pack separate from the car which we on this Smart owners forum call the "sled". He gave me confused look, and I was about to ask him to read my BAP agreement himself, but realized that my honesty might get me in big trouble, at which point, I just said: "never mind" and changed the subject.

THIS IS GETTING CRAZY! What is going on here????

1. Has my written and signed BAP battery pack rental contract been quietly torn up somewhere in the MB Finance Offices?

2. But it if it is now a "extended warranty" then why are they collecting payments even as the standard 4 year warranty is still in force? Can we sue them for all those useless $83 payments?

3. The salesman said he knew nothing about a mandatory 8 year (or 10 year in California) warranty.

4. Regarding the legally mandated 8 or 10 year warranty, I presume it will require a lawyer and a protracted legal fight costing more than the car is worth to ever claim it.

Is MB positively tripping over a minefield of lies or what? What the hell is going on?
 
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