[Yinzer]

Are there any attorneys in this forum who could provide advice on how those (in the USA) who have had their ED's totaled by a bricked HV battery pack (about a dozen among the participants in this forum alone) could pursue class action lawsuit? I assume the law firm would be tasked with a mass mailing to all current and past ED owners to determined the numbers of those affected.

There is certainly precedent in pursuing such a legal action. These pack brickings certainly rise to levels of egregiousness way beyond the hot-weather capacity loss issue in early-model Nissan LEAF's. LEAF owners successfully won a class action lawsuit against Nissan which compelled Nissan to extend the warranty which allowed a lot of owners to get new or repaired battery packs.

Nissan settles class action lawsuit in battery capacity loss case | Torque News

Nissan Leaf owners facing battery capacity loss stand to gain some relief thanks to a class action lawsuit settlement in which Nissan will extend the battery warranty to cover this condition.

www.torquenews.com

 

[rc000496]

Are there any attorneys in this forum who could provide advice on how those (in the USA) who have had their ED's totaled by a bricked HV battery pack (about a dozen among the participants in this forum alone) could pursue class action lawsuit? I assume the law firm would be tasked with a mass mailing to all current and past ED owners to determined the numbers of those affected.

There is certainly precedent in pursuing such a legal action. These pack brickings certainly rise to levels of egregiousness way beyond the hot-weather capacity loss issue in early-model Nissan LEAF's. LEAF owners successfully won a class action lawsuit against Nissan which compelled Nissan to extend the warranty which allowed a lot of owners to get new or repaired battery packs.

Nissan settles class action lawsuit in battery capacity loss case | Torque News

Nissan Leaf owners facing battery capacity loss stand to gain some relief thanks to a class action lawsuit settlement in which Nissan will extend the battery warranty to cover this condition.

www.torquenews.com

Yep. I completely agree. Having to total a car with less than 20k miles because of this defect is outrageous.

 

[Yinzer]

Yep. I completely agree. Having to total a car with less than 20k miles because of this defect is outrageous.

I think the first step is to look up a law firm that does such nationwide class action work and call them for advice - the one that pursued the Nissan LEAF action would be a good place to start if you can find out who it was. An impacted person (which isn't me, for now) need to do this and start to get the ball rolling.

A key issue the lawyers need to pursue is that all other EV manufacturers offer an 8-year battery warranty, because the battery is considered part of an emission control system which falls under the EPA-mandated 8-year extended warranty for emissions control components (which in IC engine cars included the ECM, cat converters, fuel injectors, ox sensors...) But MB argues in the opposite direction and claims that because the ED intrinsically produces no emissions, the HV battery is not an "emissions control device" where the mandated extended warranty applies. See the ED 451 warranty documentation. This argument is a bit absurd, because it only produces no emissions becasue it is electric, and has a battery instead of a fuel tank.

Note that the newer Smart 453 EQ battery DOES have a 8-year, 62K mile warranty...

 

[smark]

It’s sad the 451’s didn’t come with a 8 year 62K battery warranty. Like the newer 453 models. I think Buyers should do research, on vehicle before buying a used EV. The battery isn’t part of any emission system. It’s not a ICE vehicle. It doesn’t emit any emissions.

 

[rc000496]

I think the first step is to look up a law firm that does such nationwide class action work and call them for advice - the one that pursued the Nissan LEAF action would be a good place to start if you can find out who it was. An impacted person (which isn't me, for now) need to do this and start to get the ball rolling.

A key issue the lawyers need to pursue is that all other EV manufacturers offer an 8-year battery warranty, because the battery is considered part of an emission control system which falls under the EPA-mandated 8-year extended warranty for emissions control components (which in IC engine cars included the ECM, cat converters, fuel injectors, ox sensors...) But MB argues in the opposite direction and claims that because the ED intrinsically produces no emissions, the HV battery is not an "emissions control device" where the mandated extended warranty applies. See the ED 451 warranty documentation. This argument is a bit absurd, because it only produces no emissions becasue it is electric, and has a battery instead of a fuel tank.

Note that the newer Smart 453 EQ battery DOES have a 8-year, 62K mile warranty...

Thanks for the response. I’m not sure how many of these units sold and how many batteries failed prematurely because of this defect. I will do more research.

 

[jwight]

Is this another version of "let's you and him fight?". ?

 

[Yinzer]

It’s sad the 451’s didn’t come with a 8 year 62K battery warranty. Like the newer 453 models. I think Buyers should do research, on vehicle before buying a used EV. The battery isn’t part of any emission system. It’s not a ICE vehicle. It doesn’t emit any emissions.

Yes, the electric propulsion is an emission system. Specifically, a zero-emission syatem. Emissions are the whole raison d'etre of EV's. This is no different than the components that allow a modern IC engine to run at the precise air-fuel ratios are the same components that are required to make the engine run at all.

And no research in the world would prepare a buyer for blatant defects that render the car a total loss the day the 4-year warranty ends - with MB apparently hiding the defect from the owners - and even trying to get out of honoring the warranty when it is still in force as has been documented her in the past.

 

[Yinzer]

Is this another version of "let's you and him fight?". ?

??

Not "you and him"; us.

How is any kind of class action lawsuit started?

 

[jwight]

Sorry, the "An impacted person (which isn't me, for now)" sort of threw me off.

 

[DealMeIn]

??

Not "you and him"; us.

How is any kind of class action lawsuit started?

Someone whose battery got bricked - that's an impacted person - files a lawsuit against MB. That lawyer/law firm will then attempt to turn it into a class action suit - that is find others whose batteries got bricked that MB wouldn't fix or replace - and get them to sign up with that law firm and get the original lawsuit declared a class action.

Lawyers tend to love class action lawsuits because they can make a boatload of money from them if they can get enough impacted people to become part of the lawsuit (join the class).

Since the numbers of cars sold isn't very large and the number of bricked ones is only percentage of those, it will be more difficult to create a class large enough for the numbers to make it worth their while, which is probably why it hasn't been done. If instead they concentrate on getting all the owners an 8 year warranty, they might have enough to make the numbers work.

The alternative is someone sues MB, wins and then you do a class action since you have the precedent set and MB would be more likely to settle which is what the lawyers really want to happen.

 

[rc000496]

Yep. I agree. I’m afri

Someone whose battery got bricked - that's an impacted person - files a lawsuit against MB. That lawyer/law firm will then attempt to turn it into a class action suit - that is find others whose batteries got bricked that MB wouldn't fix or replace - and get them to sign up with that law firm and get the original lawsuit declared a class action.

Lawyers tend to love class action lawsuits because they can make a boatload of money from them if they can get enough impacted people to become part of the lawsuit (join the class).

Since the numbers of cars sold isn't very large and the number of bricked ones is only percentage of those, it will be more difficult to create a class large enough for the numbers to make it worth their while, which is probably why it hasn't been done. If instead they concentrate on getting all the owners an 8 year warranty, they might have enough to make the numbers work.

The alternative is someone sues MB, wins and then you do a class action since you have the precedent set and MB would be more likely to settle which is what the lawyers really want to happen.

yep. I agree but I’m afraid I don’t have deep enough pockets to sue MB.

 

[DealMeIn]

yep. I agree but I’m afraid I don’t have deep enough pockets to sue MB.

You don't need deep pockets to sue MB. You can do it in small claims court yourself.

It will cost them more in lawyers then it will to get you a new battery pack so they might just do it

 

[rc000496]

Yep. I agree. I’m afri

yep. I agree but I’m afraid I don’t have deep enough pockets to sue MB.

You don't need deep pockets to sue MB. You can do it in small claims court yourself.

It will cost them more in lawyers then it will to get you a new battery pack so they might just do it

Well I might take a run at it then.

 

[icepuck]

My brothers ED had can bus errors that I traced down were caused by the bms. Since the local MB dealer wanted to sell him a new pack, my brother let it go back to the bank since he still owed money on it.
Would there be a way to start a list on this forum to see if there are enough owners with bricked packs to warrant a class action lawsuit?

 

[rc000496]

My brothers ED had can bus errors that I traced down were caused by the bms. Since the local MB dealer wanted to sell him a new pack, my brother let it go back to the bank since he still owed money on it.
Would there be a way to start a list on this forum to see if there are enough owners with bricked packs to warrant a class action lawsuit?

Som

My brothers ED had can bus errors that I traced down were caused by the bms. Since the local MB dealer wanted to sell him a new pack, my brother let it go back to the bank since he still owed money on it.
Would there be a way to start a list on this forum to see if there are enough owners with bricked packs to warrant a class action lawsuit?

Someone suggested to file in small claims court. Depending on your states max claim allowed that might be simplest.

 

[Yinzer]

Would there be a way to start a list on this forum to see if there are enough owners with bricked packs to warrant a class action lawsuit?

Can a moderator help us with this? Only a fraction of impacted Smart owners ever see this forum. What is most important is something put on this forum - using the right keywords that people doing a Google search will find. I.e. don't use "bricked" battery, use "battery failure" or something.

 

[Yinzer]

It is also important to be armed with the information below when pursuing legal action.

The amazing thing here is this is probably bigger than jsut a civil case, MB may very well be knowingly breaking US federal law...

smart battery warranty better than they told you

:D Smart Battery Warranty Better Than They Told You ! Background--let's straighten this out. The sale of Smart fortwo electric cars provide Federal and State Emission credits for Mercedes, which allows them to help meet air pollution requirements...

www.smartcarofamerica.com

 

[rc000496]

Can a moderator help us with this? Only a fraction of impacted Smart owners ever see this forum. What is most important is something put on this forum - using the right keywords that people doing a Google search will find. I.e. don't use "bricked" battery, use "battery failure" or something.

I agree. We are probably a small group. Even all failures may be small enough that it won’t capture the interest of a law firm to take on a class action. I’m going to try small claims. Very little to lose and pretty simple.

 

[MB DNA]

Don’t forget the diminished value of a $30,000 vehicle sold with the promise of low maintenance and now no M-B dealer support!

Then there was the highly touted wi-fI vehicle link, gone!

Limited STATESIDE availability of high cost replacement parts - ceramic heater & HV battery pack to name a few.

ALL 451 ED owners have been impacted and as such any Class Action lawsuit should include a reasonable buyout offer (perhaps utilizing Lemon Law practices?) of any currently operating vehicle at FMV!

As ED 451 owners, we are ALL in this together!

 

[jenkinskg]

It’s sad the 451’s didn’t come with a 8 year 62K battery warranty. Like the newer 453 models. I think Buyers should do research, on vehicle before buying a used EV. The battery isn’t part of any emission system. It’s not a ICE vehicle. It doesn’t emit any emissions.

But new york and California have extended the EV drivetrain warranty by law.
But MB because of that little descicant, will deny any warranty if you did not buy new one from them