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MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
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No I never had or knew about a software update unfortunately. Last service was probably 2016 when I bought it used from a dealer.
Was "the dealer" a M-B/smart dealer? A MY14 ED sold in 2016 (perhaps a lease return?) would have been due for it's second year service which SHOULD have included, desiccant filter and any pending software updates especially if it was under the BAP (battery rental) program.

If it was purchased at auction by a non-Daimler dealer, likely they gave it a quick bath and put it up for sale with no service? Many used car lots were unaware that ED has two batteries and allowed the 12V to die sometimes "bricking" the car. Add to that not knowing what temperaturnes it may have endured while on the sales lot nor just how often the HV was charged leaves us with more questions than answers.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
EVs and Hybrids as a rule generally run everything off the 12v system and charge the 12v batt with the 'dc-dc' inverter that draws power from the hv battery whenever needed. I'm curious if the ED/EQ powers anything else directly off the hv batt for example the dash % of charge meter or more likely the circuit that runs that gauge.
VR
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The dash % charge meter is just an analog output of the drivetrain computer-calculated state of charge determined by measuring amp-hours or watt-hours out or in to the battery, with corrections for temperature.

The HV battery powers the cabin heater core and the A/C compressor. Everything else is 12 volts. Like a lot of cars nowadays, very few switches in the car actually directly switch the 12V accessory - the switches only send a low voltage hi-low signal to the "SAM" and the SAM then executes a routine to turn the headlights, windshield wipers etc. via a mechanical or solid-state relay. For this reason, if you put a LED bulb in the dome light, it will still be very dimly lit in the dark even when off becasue of leakage in the SS relay.
 

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If the last time it was serviced is 2016 then your behind on changing your decadent filter, which needs to be replaced every two years. But don’t loose heart just yet. My 12 volt battery died in my ED and I thought it was bricked, but I replaced the dead 12 volt battery and car started working again. I had to take it to the dealer to reset the warning lights that were present after the revival, but they didn’t find anything wrong with it. Seems the ED needs the 12 volt battery to start like a regular gas one does.
I don't have any new info on the car status at the moment. I did manage to have it pushed (in neutral) to a power outlet so it has been plugged in for 2 weeks now. Bot I don't know the SOC situation but given the info I have I assume it is still 0% and battery is bricked. The circumstances I dealing with is beyond perfect storm. Usually I don't leave it plugged in when I'm not around .. this is usually a few months at a time. I've been doing this for a few years with no issues. I leave it fully changed and when I return, it looses very little charge (as normal for Li batteries). I have it fully charged when I leave again. no issues. The Storm: Covid-19. Do to travel restriction I've not been able to get back to the car for several months now. To add to it, I contracted C-19 and have been fighting for 6 weeks now but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. C-19, it sucks BTW.

Luckily I do have someone a 2 hour drive away from the car that was kind enough to make the drive to plug the car in. When he did this the 12v was dead. After charging the 12v the dash said (service HV battery) and the SOC read 0%. He plugged the car in for charging (actually, airport construct accidently cut power to my hangar months ago but I was not aware of this. So ironically, even if I left the car plugged in during the long storage I might be in the same situation!.. power is still not on thus, he had to push the car across the airport to a friends hangar with power... fiasco, eh?).

Anyway, he said no lights were flashing on the charger just solid green. This, to me means it is not charging. He left it in that condition. No one has been able to go back (now 2 weeks) to look at the SOC indicator. maybe I will here something this week.

I called MB. due to C-19 their Smart ED specialist is no working but I was welcome to leave him a message. Did that. 2 weeks ago this no returned call yet.... I'm not holding my breath for a call back either.

What do I expect from MB. a new battery for free? not really. I would expect that MB acknowledges that PURPOSLY destroying the very expensive HV battery because the 12v is dead is a bad design choice. My battery would be fine now if the software was not trying to be clever and drain my HV battery. I did the math. I knew how long I could leave the HV Li battery without being charged but I did NOT now MD has a software algorithm that will add load to the battery to kill it prematurely if the 12v dies. I would expect MB to support these cars more than they do. I would expect that MB stands up a "battery service center" and service these batteries if possible... not just throw them out are sell you a new one at twice the cars value. I would expect if your HV battery is a victim of their software they should sell you a battery at cost with free install at least. Look, I really loved my ED. I would pay $3K maybe $4k to have a new battery in it but anymore than that makes no economic sense. Some would say that doesn't even make sense given the lack of US support for these vehicles at this point. Sorry for the long post... this is the first day I've been able to sit up and type in a long awhile.

Oh, and no, I bought the car from a used car place that specialized in MB. They had some affiliation with the local MB dealer... probably just sold there leased cars ...not sure. I have no illusions that I have a warranty claim here or backing/sympathy from a local MB dealer. I'm just a dude who bought a used car from a well known manufacturer and mistakenly thought they would have enough sense and pride to have maintenance options other than throwing away the most expensive part of the car without even trying to repair it! ...not to mention the part about having software the intentionally kills this part.
I will keep you posted.

m-
 

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MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
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Sorry for your misfortune(s) being stuck away from home and COVID-19 must be miserable!

If there was no smart dealer handoff of the pre-owned ED likely no software updates.

Odd but seems another owner had a similar chain of events while away wherein the power was turned off resulting in a bricked HV.

Yes, everything you said and then some about Daimler failing to do the right thing with ED and the owners!

Wishing you well with the virus’s which obviously is first priority - ED comes later. Curious, where are you & ED located?
 

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Sorry for your misfortune(s) being stuck away from home and COVID-19 must be miserable!

If there was no smart dealer handoff of the pre-owned ED likely no software updates.

Odd but seems another owner had a similar chain of events while away wherein the power was turned off resulting in a bricked HV.

Yes, everything you said and then some about Daimler failing to do the right thing with ED and the owners!

Wishing you well with the virus’s which obviously is first priority - ED comes later. Curious, where are you & ED located?
Just got an update. after a week of being plugged in the battery SOC is 0%. not good. I am in Colorado and car is in Northern Virginia.
 

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2012 Smart Fortwo Passion, 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion, 2013 Smart Fortwo ED
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Just got an update. after a week of being plugged in the battery SOC is 0%. not good. I am in Colorado and car is in Northern Virginia.
I love my ED and have been singing it’s praises, but honestly, I’m concerned about the battery bricking problem too. When my car went dead, it had been plugged in for at least a week while I went on vacation. What I can gather from other posts on here, leaving it plugged in for an extended period is a no-no as well. I now leave it plugged in for no longer than a day or two and make sure I drive it at least once or twice a week. It stinks to have to worry about the most expensive thing in the car going out and rendering your car useless if you don’t do things “just right”... It seems like there should be some directions in the manual about the do’s and don’ts of proper battery maintenance; or did I just miss it? If there’s nothing in there about the system bricking the battery if it’s not maintained in a certain way, then I would assume MB would be liable if they’re the cause of a bricked battery. Just my 2 cents...
 

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What's the deal if you disconnect the hv_batt switch - far left under dash? Manual p.18 calls this a 'device' rather than a switch. If it were just a switch that disconnects the hv_batt then no jeopardy would be added to the equation and the Li-Ion cells would just sit there month after month with hardly any loss of charge. So maybe better to leave this bad boy alone!

Has anyone added their own hv_batt disconnect switch? Seems like doing so would eliminate most of these problems.

VR. PNW. USofA
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Just got an update. after a week of being plugged in the battery SOC is 0%. not good. I am in Colorado and car is in Northern Virginia.
Very sorry that hear your story. There are many of us in the same situation. My 2014 has 20k and is dead in the water. It has been a great car and very useful for small town trips. My 12V went dead over one winter of storage but I had it charging so everything was fine after battery replacement. The next year we drove it over the winter and it sat for about 2 weeks on full charge. Unfortunately the 12V went dead again and the Li battery bricked. Now it’s sitting in my driveway. I paid $7500 for is used and they want $10k for a new battery with 2 year warranty. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. There must be an electronics eng out there that knows how to “trick” the car into allowing it to charge. The worst that can happen is it will ignite.
 

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I love my ED and have been singing it’s praises, but honestly, I’m concerned about the battery bricking problem too. When my car went dead, it had been plugged in for at least a week while I went on vacation. What I can gather from other posts on here, leaving it plugged in for an extended period is a no-no as well. I now leave it plugged in for no longer than a day or two and make sure I drive it at least once or twice a week. It stinks to have to worry about the most expensive thing in the car going out and rendering your car useless if you don’t do things “just right”... It seems like there should be some directions in the manual about the do’s and don’ts of proper battery maintenance; or did I just miss it? If there’s nothing in there about the system bricking the battery if it’s not maintained in a certain way, then I would assume MB would be liable if they’re the cause of a bricked battery. Just my 2 cents...
Take your car in to the dealer and get Service Campaign 2016060002 , and you should be fine. No one seems to have a bricked battery if they get that Service Campaign.
 

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Not exactly accurate. I always thought that too, but a month or so ago, there was an owner who did have that campaign done and his bricked on him. I'd have to do a search, but IIRC correctly he took it to his dealer and they gave him a new HV battery under warranty.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 18,000 miles
 

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Not exactly accurate. I always thought that too, but a month or so ago, there was an owner who did have that campaign done and his bricked on him. I'd have to do a search, but IIRC correctly he took it to his dealer and they gave him a new HV battery under warranty.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 18,000 miles
Well that at least seems to give you a better chance of getting a warranty replacement if you get the Service Campaign?
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Unfortunately the 12V went dead again and the Li battery bricked. Now it’s sitting in my driveway. I paid $7500 for is used and they want $10k for a new battery with 2 year warranty. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. There must be an electronics eng out there that knows how to “trick” the car into allowing it to charge. The worst that can happen is it will ignite.
Go to the latter part of this thread - some DIYers, with the right skills and/or this shop in the Ukraine, have restored their HV batteries.

 

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OK maybe some update with German findings. For sure if the 12V battery is empty or Start to die, the N127 electric drive train controller will monitor the low voltage and command the BMS to activate the contactors even the egnition is off.
This cause the battery get below the 3.2v lower limit to drive the car and also below the 3,0v of at least one cell will prevent you from charging the battery. But please do not call this bricked as you just need a working 12V battery to power the BMS and also connect the car to a charger and start the charging prozess by the dlc tester. There is even a special option in Xentry/DAS for this. If you wait longer then you could run to the real bricking issue. Dead stacks inside the battery and further more the P18051C failure. Before everything you could solve even from the outside without big issues, if you know what you are doing.

It seems to me the knowledge of the maintenance of the car is not wide spread. This is the real issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
OK maybe some update with German findings. For sure if the 12V battery is empty or Start to die, the N127 electric drive train controller will monitor the low voltage and command the BMS to activate the contactors even the egnition is off.
This cause the battery get below the 3.2v lower limit to drive the car and also below the 3,0v of at least one cell will prevent you from charging the battery. But please do not call this bricked as you just need a working 12V battery to power the BMS and also connect the car to a charger and start the charging prozess by the dlc tester. There is even a special option in Xentry/DAS for this. If you wait longer then you could run to the real bricking issue. Dead stacks inside the battery and further more the P18051C failure. Before everything you could solve even from the outside without big issues, if you know what you are doing.

It seems to me the knowledge of the maintenance of the car is not wide spread. This is the real issue.
Of course, the drive train controller being programmed close the contractors (and turn on the DC-DC converter) to charge the 12V battery, if it get low, is a good thing. But unless the 12V battery has a short-circuit (never seen this happen), periodic charging of the 12V battery would require a very long time to drain the HV battery. Something else must be happening, becasue when the bricked HV packs are opened, and the cell voltages checked, the cells are drained down to virtually zero (few tenths of a volt). This can only happen if the BMS is turning on the balancing shunts for every cell until they are discharged totally flat.
 

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Maybe but even Athen it takes a lot oft time to uncharge every single cell. And there is a special.Option when you diaconnect the 12V Battery. You need to set a flag per xentry in the BMS. Never the less there is a difference between uncharge after a level 2 accident wäre the Airbags are fired and the 12 V battery die. To prove this just disconnect your 12V battery and check after a few days your battery. You will realise they die not change their charging level ;-)

So for sure it comes from outside.
You could also prove this if you pull the HV safety Fuße for interlock close to the SAM.
In standby mode already 500W are provided by the DcDc charger. Means 1kWh in 2 hours. So 2 to 3 days and even a fully charged HV Battery is empty. In Buck Mode when the charger is switched von the current and power would be mich higher. I die not measure it but 2kW should be no issue. So 8-9 h later the battery is empty. Only the safety switch off i a cell will reach 3.2V and later 3.0V could maybe rescue it. But the self discharge at 3.0V by the balancing circuit it self will kill it very fast.

You just can check it with any Li-ON cell when you discharge it to lower threshold
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Never the less there is a difference between uncharge after a level 2 accident wäre the Airbags are fired and the 12 V battery die. To prove this just disconnect your 12V battery and check after a few days your battery. You will realise they die not change their charging level ;-)

So for sure it comes from outside.
You could also prove this if you pull the HV safety Fuße for interlock close to the SAM.
In standby mode already 500W are provided by the DcDc charger. Means 1kWh in 2 hours. So 2 to 3 days and even a fully charged HV Battery is empty. In Buck Mode when the charger is switched von the current and power would be mich higher. I die not measure it but 2kW should be no issue. So 8-9 h later the battery is empty. Only the safety switch off i a cell will reach 3.2V and later 3.0V could maybe rescue it. But the self discharge at 3.0V by the balancing circuit it self will kill it very fast.

You just can check it with any Li-ON cell when you discharge it to lower threshold
Comments and Questions:

1. A member of this forum removed his12V battery for winter storage - only to find the HV battery totally discharged in the spring. What caused this?

2. So, in an accident situation where the airbags are fired, the BMS discharges the HV battery completely? I have heard that an airbag deployment renders a smart ED worthless (becasue replacing the battery costs more than hte car is worth). Is this true? And why would the car be designed this way?

3. Explain what "buck mode" and "standby mode" are. Why would the DC-DC converter in a Smart ED, sitting still, lights and accessories off, be producing 500 watts?
 

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(just posted in another thread):

2014 Chevy Spark_EV airbags deploy and 12v battery drains immediately as the defrost blower is forced ON and there is no way for user to stop it unless by disconnecting the 12v battery. This is apparently a safety measure since with a dead 12v there is no easy way to accidentally contact the 360v. Properly one would disconnect the 12v neg right away and also lift up the rear seat and remove the hv disconnect cap. Then the hv battery can sit 'forever' as I have not noticed any leakage thru BMS or whatever on my 2 salvage Sparks.

How closely does the Smart_EV follow this sensible scheme (we need to know)?
VR
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Comments and Questions:

1. A member of this forum removed his12V battery for winter storage - only to find the HV battery totally discharged in the spring. What caused this?

2. So, in an accident situation where the airbags are fired, the BMS discharges the HV battery completely? I have heard that an airbag deployment renders a smart ED worthless (becasue replacing the battery costs more than hte car is worth). Is this true? And why would the car be designed this way?

3. Explain what "buck mode" and "standby mode" are. Why would the DC-DC converter in a Smart ED, sitting still, lights and accessories off, be producing 500 watts?
Hi Yinzer,
i try to answer your questions.
to 1)
I can tell you some experience from german users which goes in the opposite way. Never the less there is a special procedure if you want to disconnect your 12V Battery according the shop manual. You need to set a flag in the BMS that the contactors are NOT switched on by accident. AS the there is some energy left maybe the dcdc converter Start immediatly to buffer the 12v.

To2)
Reason for this is there is nobody offical which will reset the failure conditions without the battery exchange. The pyrofuse is Outsider the battery but the signal is open the interlock signal. This means it is a safety feature for immediatly switch off of the contactor. There are rumours that the signal is also feeding the CSE balancing boards. But remember the possible energy they could handle without the cooling. It is less than the loads in the car.
To3)
There are two Mordes of operation of the DCDC converter according shop manual. The more or less standby mode wäre only 500w are supplied. Remember every ECU of the EV CAN need to be powered. If there are only 1-2A per unit you are fast to 500w.

The Buck mode is the full operation mode. I do not have checked the full spec but in the range of 2kw are supplied by the HV to 12 Dcdc converters typically. For bigger cars they discussed up to 3-4kw.

BR
JMK
 
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