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But what's the German philosophy that I had been told? Something like "why make it simple when we can make it complex and still get it to work."

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 18,000 miles
 

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This is true, indeed in my opinion it would be very difficult tonrun a old historical electric car in the near future. There will be no Oldtimer because nobody can bring Thema back on route without to modify it in a way which is not according oft some regulations. :-(
 

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I'd be in for a lawsuit, although I bought ours used so maybe there's no hope. I just posted a separate thread -- I'm afraid my wife's 2015 Smart ForTwo ED is bricked due to sitting unplugged during Covid quarantine. I had no idea that it could brick due to not being plugged in. Sounds like that should have been a huge-font warning all over the place, not a little throwaway comment buried in the middle of a paragraph in the manual. My wife unplugged it since she was afraid of the charging station failing and causing a fire or something when plugged in for months; didn't expect an unplugged car to completely die and not have a way to recharge. WTF.
 

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For long storage you just need to charge the battery up to 90% and unplug the 12V Battery. Then nothing happens to the car :-( There is even a special option where you switch of the balancing for transportation.
 

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eraoul - so sorry to hear about your situation. You couldn't have known unless maybe you wasted hours every day here on the forum like some of us do. Hopefully you have a life and don't have to do that. :) May I ask the condition and age of your 12v battery? Did you happen to notice the charge on your HV battery decreasing overnight? That's typically a sign that you might have a weak 12v battery. You aren't paying the monthly rental fee on your HV battery are you? That might be an out for you if you are, but there are very few of those still active I think.

Good luck with things. Keep us posted. Ask questions here. We'd like to help if we can.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 18,500 miles
 

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MY08 cabrio MY09 cabrio Brabus MY15 ED
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I'd be in for a lawsuit, although I bought ours used so maybe there's no hope.

I had no idea that it could brick due to not being plugged in. Sounds like that should have been a huge-font warning all over the place, not a little throwaway comment buried in the middle of a paragraph in the manual. My wife unplugged it since she was afraid of the charging station failing and causing a fire or something when plugged in for months; didn't expect an unplugged car to completely die and not have a way to recharge. WTF.
eraoul, actually you may be that perfect “moving party” to start a Class Action amid a COVID life? That you purchased a pre-owned doesn’t negate your question of where is/was that very important information?

Who knows, who knew and why does ED take it’s own life - poor design?

You have been harmed as have others and we ALL (8,800 or so?) as The Class remain at risk!

This might be a good group to contact as they specialize in Class Action against auto manufacturers...

 

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Yeah I'll probably talk to the lawyers. I charged the 12V and it still refuses to charge the HV battery. Also in my manual in one place it says something like "keep the battery charged. If you intend to store the vehicle for a long time uncharged, make sure the temperature is between -3 and 110 degrees F". There's a different spot in the manual that says not to leave it uncharged for more than 2 weeks; but this section says that it's fine if the temperature range is controlled. So that seems confusing and inconsistent.
 

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There has also been discussion in the past as to whether the battery had an eight year warranty as part of the federal emissions directives or was the battery only a four year warranty with the rest of the car. Some talk indicated that maybe the carb states did in fact have an eight year warranty. I think the 453's did in fact have an eight year warranty. That might also be a way to fight this and maybe get Mercedes to make you whole to get out from under the bad publicity a class action suit might generate.

Len
2014 EV Coupe 20,000 miles
2014 EV Cabriolet 18,500 miles
 

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Update: I swapped in a brand-new 12V, but it didn't help; still dead in the water. Next step: I'll tow it to the dealer and wait for them to tell me it's officially bricked.
 

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Sorry to hear that. @Mcallender. I just talked to the class action firm and they said they weren't interested (presumably since there are so few Smart cars that it's not worth their time :(
 

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Yes, they may deal only in “whales” and you brought them a minnow?

There are other groups out there - unfortunately Class Action suits often must be “shopped.”

Here’s another that appears to help facilitate the “shopping?”

“ClassAction.org is a group of online professionals who are committed to exposing corporate wrongdoing and giving consumers the tools they need to fight back. We've been reporting on the legal space for nearly a decade and have built relationships with class action and mass tort attorneys across the country.”

 

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There is a rumor: there's actually nothing wrong with your car, and the bricking is caused by a software bug.
According to this rumor, you can unbrick a bricked EV by towing it and holding down the brake pedal. This causes the regenerative braking software to trickle power into the EV in a way that evades the software bug.

You have nothing to lose but your dignity!
 

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Discussion Starter #76 (Edited)
There is no way that could work. The error condition opens the contractors - isolating the battery pack. And even if somehow the regen was activated, the car would have to be towed 100 miles (160 km) or more to substantially charge the battery. Please quit posting and re-posting this suggestion.

Just to humor you, I will take my operational ED to the hill in front of my house, turn it off, then turn it back on but not to "Ready" mode, and see if braking down the hill activates the regen.

And yes, we all know that the problem is a software bug which MB - inexplicably - refuses to acknowledge or fix. That is exactly what is wrong with the car. You are not telling us anything new.
 

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Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
Just to humor you, I will take my operational ED to the hill in front of my house, turn it off, then turn it back on but not to "Ready" mode, and see if braking down the hill activates the regen.
Confirmed. Regen does no work coasting the car in non-ready mode. I hope I didn't activate the bug's self-destuct routine doing this "experiment".
 

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Great :) I like the story :) Like the broken Light Bulb is taken into the sun to recharged and brought back in the dark is repaired again.

Guys it is very easy. If you get discharged close to 3V of cells there is more or less now charge any more in the cell and it discharge rapidly down.
If there is not more voltagein a stack left,the CSE is stop working and by this you get a CAN failure. If all 3 Stacks gone down, the supply for the isolated area on the BMS (BCU) is not more powered and you will receive the P18051C.By this and if the Voltage is below 3V the contactor would not more closed. By this you could not charge. So you need to find the trick by Xentry / Vediamo to activate the contactor either or you need to open the battery to recharge it. if cut the tree you could not more sit on it ;-)

Stay tuned, we in Germany work on a solution.In meantime pay attention your cells do not get discharged below 3,2 V. Also not by the broken 12V Battery which cause the BMS to recharge it via DC/DC Charger.
If you are interested to participate a team working on the different issues, send me a PN
 

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Discussion Starter #80 (Edited)
Great :) I like the story :) Like the broken Light Bulb is taken into the sun to recharged and brought back in the dark is repaired again.

Guys it is very easy. If you get discharged close to 3V of cells there is more or less now charge any more in the cell and it discharge rapidly down.
If there is not more voltagein a stack left,the CSE is stop working and by this you get a CAN failure. If all 3 Stacks gone down, the supply for the isolated area on the BMS (BCU) is not more powered and you will receive the P18051C.By this and if the Voltage is below 3V the contactor would not more closed. By this you could not charge. So you need to find the trick by Xentry / Vediamo to activate the contactor either or you need to open the battery to recharge it. if cut the tree you could not more sit on it ;-)

Stay tuned, we in Germany work on a solution.In meantime pay attention your cells do not get discharged below 3,2 V. Also not by the broken 12V Battery which cause the BMS to recharge it via DC/DC Charger.
If you are interested to participate a team working on the different issues, send me a PN
First of all, are you using Google translate? Your English writing contains a lot of errors and and we have to do a lot of interpretation of what you intended to write. Can someone in this forum do German-English translation?

But based on what I think you wrote, one problem is that in many (or all?) of these cases of failure, when the battery pack is opened, the cells are found to be discharged to not just 3 volts, but to near zero volts. (30 volts for the whole pack in the cases I've read about). So the cells are being discharged to zero by the BMS, triggered by some event. In one of these cases, the 12V battery was removed from the car for the winter, so the pack was not discharged becasue the DC-DC converter was trying to charge the 12V battery. Also, an excessively low state of charge should not cause a lithium cell to discharge itself to zero - the cell will just sit at that low state of charge indefinitely.

Since the subject of this thread is the responsibility of Mercedes Benz for this problem, why are THEY not addressing this problem? Is is not like MB has gone out of business (like some early EV manufacturers did like bug-laden Think EV or the Vectrix or Current scooters). We should not have to rely on amateur tinkerers to come up with a solution.
 
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