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Ever since I got my Smart Car, :D I’ve been looking for different types of motoring to enjoy. :burnout: So I started to look into Autocross (Solo) in the Detroit Metro area. Seems I’ll have to keep looking and expand my search area. :(

I just received word from the Michigan Sport Car Club that “The 2012 SCCA rulebook does not specifically include it on the list of prohibited vehicles. However, multiple message board threads have calculated its Static Stability Factor as well under the required SCCA threshold (1.16 on a 1.30 minimum). Unfortunately, I'm going to have to veto the Smart car for our events “.

A vehicle's SSF is calculated using the formula SSF=T/2H, where T is the "track width" of the vehicle and H is the "height of the center of gravity" of the vehicle. The track width is the distance between the centers of the right and left tires along the axle. The location of the center of gravity is measured in a laboratory to determine the height above the ground of the vehicle's mass. Anyone know the height location for the Smart Cabriolet center of gravity? :confused:
 

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Using Google and searching for "smart 451 center of gravity"

See post 7.

http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f77/want-cg-451-a-18642/
I don't think center of balance and center of gravity are one and the same.

Center of balance will tell you where to park your smart on a seesaw to have equilibrium. Essentially a horizontal measurement.

Center of gravity adds a vertical component. It's what determines if your smart is prone to rolling over when cornering.

Regards,

Dan
 

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Ever since I got my Smart Car, :D I’ve been looking for different types of motoring to enjoy. :burnout: So I started to look into Autocross (Solo) in the Detroit Metro area. Seems I’ll have to keep looking and expand my search area. :(

I just received word from the Michigan Sport Car Club that “The 2012 SCCA rulebook does not specifically include it on the list of prohibited vehicles. However, multiple message board threads have calculated its Static Stability Factor as well under the required SCCA threshold (1.16 on a 1.30 minimum). Unfortunately, I'm going to have to veto the Smart car for our events “.

A vehicle's SSF is calculated using the formula SSF=T/2H, where T is the "track width" of the vehicle and H is the "height of the center of gravity" of the vehicle. The track width is the distance between the centers of the right and left tires along the axle. The location of the center of gravity is measured in a laboratory to determine the height above the ground of the vehicle's mass. Anyone know the height location for the Smart Cabriolet center of gravity? :confused:
I don't know the height location, but you can solve for it since you know SSF and you can measure the track width. That leaves only one variable.

SSF = measured track width / 2H

Still begs the question - where are the "multiple message board threads" and who took a smart into a lab to measure CG? SCCA? Really? Is the alleged SSF real?

I suspect there's a lot of "eyeball" engineering going on here. The smart's a short car that's relatively tall so it must be prone to rolling over.

If I were the OP and really interested in autocrossing my smart, I'd sure be asking some pointed questions about the "multiple message board threads" and where the SSF figure came from.

Regards,

Dan
 

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:smartje.wt.zw:i wonder if my SSF with 165/65 tires had anything to do with the dusting i gave to that C5 in traffic this weekend:idiot:
 

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Since I'm an SCCA member I'll say it's BS, 1: yes the smart is taller than most cars, but that doesn't mean it has a center gravity, I've seen a Ford focus roll over at an auto-x event, I race a focus in (SMF) unlimited class, it takes ALOT to get it to spin out, much less roll, 2: my local SCCA chapter allows smarts, hell we even let a Toyota tacoma run last year, they drove it HARD and it didn't roll, don't give up!:D
 

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Amen Dan. Having said that, I'm sure it's probably a bit higher than most cars that are typically found auto-crossing, ie Miata, etc.
No argument there. I would never want to autocross with my smart in the same class as a Miata. The point is more "should we be banned from autocross"? I think not.

Worse comes to worst, just imagine all the great utube videos of smarts on their backs with the wheels up in the air. (Ain't gonna happen.)

Regards,

Dan
 

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No argument there. I would never want to autocross with my smart in the same class as a Miata. The point is more "should we be banned from autocross"? I think not.

Worse comes to worst, just imagine all the great utube videos of smarts on their backs with the wheels up in the air. (Ain't gonna happen.)

Regards,

Dan
Haven't seen videos with wheels up in the air but there are several videos from across the pond where they end up on their sides...:eek:
 

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Haven't seen videos with wheels up in the air but there are several videos from across the pond where they end up on their sides...:eek:
In an autocross setting? Closed, level course ... I think not. I could be wrong ... have been in the past ... probalby will be in the future.

Actually, if you try hard enough, you can probably get any car to roll. Bottom line is, should the smart be banned from autocross? I think not.

Having driven my smart cars since 2008, I wouldn't hesitate to drive one on an autocross course. I'm sure I wouldn't set any course records, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't end up upside-down or on my side.

We need a smart car class at theese events. Maybe then we'd be allowed to compete against Daewoos and Suzuki Samurais. [Full Disclosure] Never owned a Daewoo but have owned several Suzukis ... sadly, never a Samurai.

How much further can I stick my tongue into my cheek?

Regards,

Dan
 

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Dan, agreed, and there are some bragging rights -- I beat a Samuri and a Daewoo! LOL

I have seen some footage of them on their side as well, but I don't think that's a reason to ban them. First off auto-X is run solo. Second, it just take a couple of medium-sized blokes to right one once it's fallen over!
 

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Videos that I saw were from racing events for smart cars...Most of the time the flip was from going into the corners to hard...

Somewhere here on SCoA is a picture of Krusty's car doing autocross on a rain slick track in Florida and he has the right front wheel off the ground.... I was there...
 

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Here's something you can take to your local SCCA authority: Smart Fortwo Tops Test for Rollover Safety - NYTimes.com


Yes the smart can roll over under the right conditions. If/when it does, you're probably less likely to suffer injury.

I still think local SCCA jurisdictions base their decisions on smart participation on little more than conjecture and innuendo.

If that's not the case, please enlighten us with irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Regards,

Dan

I do not have a dog in this fight. I'm an old f*rt who's even getting his Suzuki scooter converted into a trike because I'm too old and too much of a wuss to deal with getting injured in a motorcycle accident at this point in my life.
And I've been riding 2-wheelers longer than I've been driving cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for the input and opinions, SCCA Solo rules give a chart for the Tech inspectors. Height of car divided by the average of track widths (front & back), find in on the cart 1.30 or higher, good to go, below 1.30, sorry. I'll just keep looking, thanks
 

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Videos that I saw were from racing events for smart cars...Most of the time the flip was from going into the corners to hard...

Somewhere here on SCoA is a picture of Krusty's car doing autocross on a rain slick track in Florida and he has the right front wheel off the ground.... I was there...
His right front tire is in the air because of the rigid chassis and the enormous amount of torque that the bumper spikes give him ! :p

Actually, I was VERY surprised that he had enough grip on wet pavement to lift a tire ! :cool:
 

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Videos that I saw were from racing events for smart cars...Most of the time the flip was from going into the corners to hard...

Somewhere here on SCoA is a picture of Krusty's car doing autocross on a rain slick track in Florida and he has the right front wheel off the ground.... I was there...
What happened to Krusty? Haven't seen a post for over a month?
 
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