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Discussion Starter #1

you can cancel at any time


Source:https://www.smartusa.com/resources/doc/smart_battery-assurance-plus_SEO.pdf page 7
"now for the question you really want answered: how much is the battery rental fee? being that you’re financially savvy, we think you’re really going to like the budget-friendly battery rental fee. you pay $80 + tax month-to-month and you can cancel at any time. however, once you cancel, you can’t renew at a later time. in addition, once you cancel, you will be required to return the battery to mercedes-benz financial services. when you do the math, you’ll discover that the overall cost of ownership or lease is significantly lower with battery assurance plussm."


 

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"you can cancel at any time. however, once you cancel, you can’t renew at a later time. in addition, once you cancel, you will be required to return the battery to mercedes-benz financial services."
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Have fun with that, pushing your battery-less sled to the next destination?

Since 6/18/17 you have dissed The Brand and The Product, smart. What exactly is your agenda? For one who apparently remains "a tire kicker," you have quite an obsession with BAP!

Honestly we don't need you to save us from BAP, it was a choice that is now in the rear view mirror leaving each and every 451 ED lease flip as a standalone case for which guidance is available from MBFS.

As with all car deals - caveat emptor.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
"As with all car deals - caveat emptor. "


Which has prompted my inquiries, leading me to some facts that seemed to be misrepresented on occasion. e.g.


A first time buyer or leaser of a smart may have taken on a BAP contract.
He is free to cancel his BAP at anytime he chooses, at the end of his car lease would be a perfect time. He simply calls MBFS and says my car has been returned to my dealer and I wish to terminate my BAP, he offers his Vin# and he is done. Not all Dealers seem to understand this painless exit.


A used smart buyer is free to decline BAP, some dealers may insist that the car is a BAP car and you must assume the existing contract. They are mistaken, don't argue, they won't be handing you a contract, instead you will receive a call from MBFS, at which time you simply say you do not wish to have BAP, they say OK and you are done.


Remember that these cars came with a 4year, 50,000mi warranty. Also we have learned that the batteries are on average only degrading less that 10% in cars over 100,000 miles. SO, Relax. you don't need BAP, you don't have to keep BAP and you don't have to buy BAP.


What if you returned your lease car and failed to contact MBFS to cancel BAP ? Well, 60 days after the car is sold at auction, the BAP vin#s are scrubbed by MBFS, You're Safe !


I hope this has been useful.
 

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"Remember that these cars came with a 4year, 50,000mi warranty. Also we have learned that the batteries are on average only degrading less that 10% in cars over 100,000 miles. SO, Relax. you don't need BAP, you don't have to keep BAP and you don't have to buy BAP.


I hope this has been useful.
But you do need a battery.... clearly the document you posted showed that turning in BAP requires turning in drive battery. So I guess I don't understand....... still again.:shrug:
 

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When you lease a car, you are leasing through MBFS. So when the lease is returned, the battery that is attached to the car is clearly also being turned in. Thus the BAP contract is fulfilled. So if you're worried about buying a used car with BAP, just look for a lease return.
 

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I definitely see some inaccurate statements and inaccurate assumptions here. The challenge is how I can contribute to this thread in an effective and appropriate manner... :nerd:
 

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Optimist pulled up an old document that is no longer valid. You can no longer purchase BAP. It is no longer being sold. If you currently have BAP and keep making payments, you can continue to have BAP (unless MBFS decides to kill the program or unless you violate any terms of BAP). If you buy an off lease car, and it has a valid BAP contract, you can likely take it over. If you buy an off lease car and it does not have BAP paperwork you can sign, you can not have BAP. If you buy a new car, you can not get BAP.

In other words, you have no chance at getting BAP on a new car or on a used car that doesn't have a valid BAP contract. The question is whether you are required to keep BAP on used off lease cars that have BAP. It appears that if you sign paperwork to take over an existing BAP contract, then you must pay for BAP. On the other hand, if you don't sign paperwork, it appears you don't have to pay for BAP if you don't want it and you may not even be able to get BAP if you do want it. All the evidence presented on SCoA backs up this theory. Legally, any car that had a valid BAP contract is supposed to have the original owner or some future owner make $80 payments for ten years, or return the battery. But recent evidence suggests MBFS no longer enforces this payment if you buy a used car and do not sign paperwork.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The old document is only offered as evidence that current BAP holders are free to terminate the contract at any time they choose. Hurricanes is of course correct that the program is no longer available for purchase of the new 453 ed.


I have attempted to understand MB Financial Service's current BAP policies.
In the process I discovered that many changes have been made and apparently smart Centers have not been informed. I have shared what I have learned presenting the facts and encouraged calls to MBFS. One smart Center manager has resisted with genuine sincerity. He has become the perfect foil for a dialogue that you have watched. I hope that he will return after he confirms to his own satisfaction that only facts have been shared here and learns that his operating premises which were historically correct, have been changed by MB Financial Services.
 

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current BAP holders are free to terminate the contract at any time they choose.
I have serious doubts that current BAP holders are free to terminate the contract without penalty. I am not aware of anyone actually having done that. Where there has been a shift is for those folks who buy used off lease cars where no BAP paperwork was signed. In the past MBFS tried to enforce BAP (challenging considering they never agreed to it), but now that seems to no longer be the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If,,,,,You have "Serious Doubts" ?


Call MB Financial Services at 1-866-700-9853


Then come back and report what you learned about, "You may terminate BAP at any time you choose"


And yes, we understand that you must return the battery so terminating at the end of your car lease is the natural time to also terminate BAP.
 

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And yes, we understand that you must return the battery so terminating at the end of your car lease is the natural time to also terminate BAP.
But that is exactly what I said in my earlier post; returning the battery is a very serious penalty to terminate "at any time", particularly if you bought the car with BAP. But I think we are straying off the path here, as you aren't really speaking to current BAP owners, most of whom may be happy with BAP, but you are really speaking to folks thinking of buying a used car who worry about being saddled with BAP. Those folks are now the ones who have options where BAP is likely not required.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
There is NO,,as you say, "Very serious penalty to terminate "at any time", particularly if you bought the car with BAP"


Simply call MBFS after returning your car at lease-end and announce that your car is back in MB's hands and you wish to Terminate your BAP, my vin # is........
AND it is canceled with, NO, "Very serious penalty".


Also, you as a second buyer are not mandated to assume or acquire BAP.
It is CERTAINLY NOT REQUIRED,,,,,,,,NOT, "Likely not required".


Please, if you have any doubts call MBFS, 1-866-700-9853. Read them this post if you like and verify the facts.
I'm surprised no one has chimed-in to say that they have called and confirmed what has been shared here.


Thank you to whoever fixed the thread title misspelling !
 

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There is NO,,as you say, "Very serious penalty to terminate "at any time", particularly if you bought the car with BAP"


Simply call MBFS after returning your car at lease-end and announce that your car is back in MB's hands and you wish to Terminate your BAP, my vin # is........
AND it is canceled with, NO, "Very serious penalty".


Also, you as a second buyer are not mandated to assume or acquire BAP.
It is CERTAINLY NOT REQUIRED,,,,,,,,NOT, "Likely not required".


Please, if you have any doubts call MBFS, 1-866-700-9853. Read them this post if you like and verify the facts.
I'm surprised no one has chimed-in to say that they have called and confirmed what has been shared here.


Thank you to whoever fixed the thread title misspelling !
Nothing new with this information. Customers returning leased vehicles with BAP have always had their BAP accounts pulled from their name. They are no longer responsible for car or BAP lease payments once the lease has been terminated. The manufacturer pays the battery for 60 days' worth of payments, then it is assumed by the reselling dealer if the reselling dealer chooses to accept the terms of BAP. This has been common knowledge for smart dealers, for years.

If the vehicle is sold to a reselling dealer within the BAP period, then the vehicle is sold at a value assuming BAP and the reselling dealer is paying a BAP price for the vehicle and passing the used car on as a BAP vehicle. If the reselling dealer declines BAP (even within the 60 day period), the reselling dealer is buying the vehicle for resale at a non-BAP residual price as determined by the manufacturer.

Used vehicles with BAP and without BAP have had different prices because of different residuals. I hope I am not sounding like a broken record here, but I feel the need to make sure the record stays clear for folks who are reading this thread.

If a prospective buyer is looking to buy a used smart EV, they should obtain the vin number and contact MBFS and find out if the vehicle has BAP on it or not.

I do not deny that BAP has been cancelled on some vehicles, with the losses on the manufacturer side, because resale values for electric vehicles is rather low compared to gas vehicle counterparts. Perhaps in the future that will change, but maybe that's another 5 or 10 years from today... time will tell.
 

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There is NO,,as you say, "Very serious penalty to terminate "at any time", particularly if you bought the car with BAP"

Simply call MBFS after returning your car at lease-end and announce that your car is back in MB's hands and you wish to Terminate your BAP, my vin # is........
AND it is canceled with, NO, "Very serious penalty".

Also, you as a second buyer are not mandated to assume or acquire BAP.
It is CERTAINLY NOT REQUIRED,,,,,,,,NOT, "Likely not required".!
You do understand that buying and leasing are two very different things? You are arguing with yourself in this post; you quote me where I say purchase and later you say lease. Your statement is true for lease, but is false for purchase, which is the point I was making. If you bought with BAP, and later wish to cancel BAP, returning the battery is clearly a major penalty as you will then own a car without a battery.

However, this is only the case for folks who bought in past years as BAP is no longer sold with new cars and often is discontinued at resale. BAP is still being run by MBFS; you can still get your battery replaced if you have a BAP contract.
 

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People...MBFS created BAP, they are the only ones with the most up to date info on the program. Yes things have changed with the program, so why don't you call MBFS? Optimist has given out the number numerous times in this thread, and instead of spending 10 minutes on the phone with MBFS, you would rather argue for hours about old information that no longer applies. Just call the number and get all the answers you want. This is why I left Facebook.
 

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Nothing new with this information. Customers returning leased vehicles with BAP have always had their BAP accounts pulled from their name. They are no longer responsible for car or BAP lease payments once the lease has been terminated. The manufacturer pays the battery for 60 days' worth of payments, then it is assumed by the reselling dealer if the reselling dealer chooses to accept the terms of BAP. This has been common knowledge for smart dealers, for years.

If the vehicle is sold to a reselling dealer within the BAP period, then the vehicle is sold at a value assuming BAP and the reselling dealer is paying a BAP price for the vehicle and passing the used car on as a BAP vehicle. If the reselling dealer declines BAP (even within the 60 day period), the reselling dealer is buying the vehicle for resale at a non-BAP residual price as determined by the manufacturer.

Used vehicles with BAP and without BAP have had different prices because of different residuals. I hope I am not sounding like a broken record here, but I feel the need to make sure the record stays clear for folks who are reading this thread.

If a prospective buyer is looking to buy a used smart EV, they should obtain the vin number and contact MBFS and find out if the vehicle has BAP on it or not.

I do not deny that BAP has been cancelled on some vehicles, with the losses on the manufacturer side, because resale values for electric vehicles is rather low compared to gas vehicle counterparts. Perhaps in the future that will change, but maybe that's another 5 or 10 years from today... time will tell.
Thanks for that info! :)

I have no horse in this race as I don’t have an ED nor do I have any plans on getting one anytime soon. I want to complete my 450 and 451 projects before adding to the collection.

I think what hurricanes wants clarification on is if you buy a car with BAP and decide that you don’t want BAP anymore, do you have to give the battery back like the old legalese in the OP says? Or do you have to pay some fee to keep it?

People...MBFS created BAP, they are the only ones with the most up to date info on the program. Yes things have changed with the program, so why don't you call MBFS? Optimist has given out the number numerous times in this thread, and instead of spending 10 minutes on the phone with MBFS, you would rather argue for hours about old information that no longer applies. Just call the number and get all the answers you want. This is why I left Facebook.
The only problem with this is that in my experience, consistency seems to vary at the smart USA, MB USA, and MBFS customer service departments. I believe this is why there’s still so much confusion over BAP.

I’ve learned to call each three times no matter the question. I’ll get three different answers and one of them is the closest to being the most accurate.

And I understand why that is. I work in a corporation in a server/SQL IT department where one question that a customer asks can have three or more answers depending on the agent. Sometimes our customers have to call in five or more times before they arrive at the truly correct answer.
 

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People...MBFS created BAP, they are the only ones with the most up to date info on the program. Yes things have changed with the program, so why don't you call MBFS? Optimist has given out the number numerous times in this thread, and instead of spending 10 minutes on the phone with MBFS, you would rather argue for hours about old information that no longer applies. Just call the number and get all the answers you want. This is why I left Facebook.
Actually, I have indeed called and spoken with MBFS; recently in fact. I would wager that I have spoken with MBFS about BAP on more occasions than you and Optimist combined, despite your insinuation to the contrary. I have spoken to several people there; very friendly and helpful folks. And I am not the only one to call MBFS this year; one forum member had an excellent thread wherein he listed the actual questions he asked and gave their responses. He of course was lampooned by other members of the forum; but I encourage you to go back and reread his original post. But the issue of BAP goes back almost to the start of this forum years ago. If you haven't already done so, you would learn a lot by reading old threads; particularly those from this past spring.

As Miss Mercedes points out, I received many different responses to the same questions, but if you are subtle in your discussions with them, you can piece together things. It isn't surprising that you will get multiple answers; bear in mind that MB and SMART have not issued any formal statement that you don't need to continue BAP if you buy a used ED that had BAP originally. The policy appears to be more subtle; they seem to be continuing to rake in the BAP payments for those who wish to stay in the program, while at the same time quietly turning a blind eye if you buy an off lease ED that had BAP. Thus, no surprise that MBFS can't give a straight answer; the policy seems to be evolving; particularly in the past year.

The piece of evidence that you personally have brought to the table is that I believe you are the first case we have had of someone buying a used ED direct from a MB dealership and not having to sign with BAP. There have been many others this year who bought from other dealerships, but this is yet another brick of evidence as we piece together this evolving BAP administration.

By the way, I see no problem with a healthy debate that brings out all the evidence. There has been no name calling or untoward behavior.
 

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Has anyone tried to negotiate the buyout of the battery? They quote 5K (and change). I'm on the bap program, and in Oklahoma where my dealer does not sell new vehicles any longer and says I have a few years 'til they quit servicing the vehicle. They are always puzzled when I bring mine in for service anyway. They have no idea what the bap plan is and look at me with blank stares when I tell them I need my annual battery service.


I spoke with MBPS a few months ago, asked them about the program voicing my concerns about my vehicle being serviced when there are no longer any dealers in my area. I'm understanding that the bap program requires the annual service to be valid. I posed the question that if I have no dealers in the area and the nearest one I can find that is still selling (and servicing) is 500 hundred miles away what do I do? They said, "I guess you will have to haul it to a dealer that does service".


So I'm perplexed on what to do. Stick it out and see what happens, continue to pay my 85/month? Or do the buy out at 5K (or a negotiated price)? I'm in a 15 w/10K which I've had for a little over a year, which I do enjoy. My thinking is that smart might fold in the coming years, how can a car line survive on low sales? BAP might be terminated for everyone.
 

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I posed the question that if I have no dealers in the area and the nearest one I can find that is still selling (and servicing) is 500 hundred miles away what do I do? They said, "I guess you will have to haul it to a dealer that does service".

My thinking is that smart might fold in the coming years, how can a car line survive on low sales? BAP might be terminated for everyone.
Haul it 500 miles for annual service, hardly a customer centric response from M-B?

With so few dealers outside the CARB states, seems odd that smart isn't offering delivery assistance for NEW purchases/leases that require delivery "beyond range?"

That may speak volumes? Why build "a village" when you are developing an "exit" strategy?

BAP termination by M-B, contractually, could a very slippery slope?
 
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