[eggsalad]

I'm so glad I found and read this forum. I've chosen not to buy an ED (and I'll explain why in a moment) but you folks helped me dodge a bullet.

I've been shopping for an electric, and I found an ad for a '14 ED for $4200. Great! What a bargain!

But the ad said "Must purchase BAP". That's when I found this forum.

I test-drove the car. The 3rd party dealer said I didn't really have to purchase BAP, but without it, not only would I lose battery protection, but also the entire factory warranty. For $4200, I figured I'd take the gamble.

Then I read the many BAP posts in this forum. Surprise, surprise, the dealer was lying to me! He did tell me that he bought the car from Mercedes Financial, so I *know* it has BAP, and now I know I have to keep paying for it. Over a 5-year period, BAP will cost more than the car. Maybe it's not such a bargain after all - and maybe it is, but it certainly isn't the screaming deal it seemed to be at first.

Based upon what I've read here, I hope that one day some smarty-pants lawyer tries to take this on. The situation is without legal precedent... to wit, I can have a free and clear title to a car, while another party can claim ownership of PART of that car?? I'm no lawyer, but that seems like it begs for a fight, given the fact that the buyer for this car has no contract whatsoever with MBUSA. Would it fall back on them? On the selling dealer? Who knows, but I'm not going to be the test case, racking up lawyer bills while my remotely-disabled car sits wherever I last shut it off.

Again, let me thank the members of the forum for providing the information I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere!

 

[emailchrishall]

Yeah, a lease is a lease. So the issue would fall back on to someone for sure. That car was sold at a discounted price with the lease as part of the package. Like it or not, businesses exist to make money, not give away cars. So someone, somewhere has to pay for that bad boy.

If you are still in the market, you can find relatively newer EDs for not a whole lot more that were purchased out-right without the BAP. It seems as through the vast majority of EDs were sold with the BAP so that has an impact on the resale value of those without the BAP. It's like how the houses in your neighborhood impact the value of your house. So there are still some great deals out there but like you found out, you have to do some homework.


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[hurricanes]

$4200 is a really good price for a 2014 ED; true, you might be able to find something like Villatoro found (essentially free!), but $4200 is still a great price as almost all others are $5000 or more. You don't have to purchase BAP; you can likely also just buy the battery outright for $5000 more or less, which means your total is $9200; still a good price for an almost new electric car. However, bear in mind that BAP not only includes the price of the battery but is also in essence an extended warranty program that also covers normal wear and tear for a decade. Considering the battery is the most expensive part, that has some piece of mind associated with it. There are some who have ignored BAP and appear to have escaped the MB repo men, although that is second hand information, and also bear in mind that others have reported getting letters from MB. There is also the likelihood that BAP may be discontinued with future ED sales, which may have implications for the continuation of BAP into the future. Not to mention that Mercedes Benz may opt out of the BAP for the legal reasons you cite. The coming year promises to be very interesting regarding BAP. But don't let that distract you from enjoying the ED.

 

[eggsalad]

Fair enough, and I certainly haven't taken myself out of the game, but neither am I in any sort of hurry. Compared to an (effectively) $9200 ForTwo ED, perhaps that makes it worth my time to compare it to the $6000 FIAT 500e's that are also flooding the off-lease market.

I think I'll kick back for a few months and see how the drama unfolds...

 

[emailchrishall]

My two criteria when I went car shopping were "Cheap" and "Electric". Not a combo often found but that's what made me a proud Smart owner.


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[hurricanes]

I'd add 'safe' to that list, which is where I think the SMART has the 500 beat. 'Styling' and 'Comfort' are also two things to consider, but that varies a lot between people.

 

[DowneasTTer]

As an ice owner of both (Max our 08 cabrio and Adder our 15 Abarth C) I can tell you if and it's a BIG if I ever purchased an electric car it would be a smart (only because smart is the only affordable convertible electric-able). But the truth be know the Fiat 500e is a better deal on the use market today.

 

[jetfuel]

..the top of that list should have the "fun factor"...

Jetfuel....for sure...

 

[InjuredAgain]

YIf you are still in the market, you can find relatively newer EDs for not a whole lot more that were purchased out-right without the BAP. It seems as through the vast majority of EDs were sold with the BAP so that has an impact on the resale value of those without the BAP. It's like how the houses in your neighborhood impact the value of your house. So there are still some great deals out there but like you found out, you have to do some homework.

Is the only sure way to do this to call MBFS with the VIN, or is there another way to know?

 

[MB DNA]

Is the only sure way to do this to call MBFS with the VIN, or is there another way to know?

I know of no other way short of "trusting" the selling party. If it is a M-B/smart Center, you are probably safe?

If the BAP payments are current they will usually respond simply with a yes. Unfortunately if the BAP is in question, perhaps because of payments being missed, MBFS won't give you ALL the information and may make some comment like "I'd be careful." :shrug:

 

[10470]

Is the only sure way to do this to call MBFS with the VIN, or is there another way to know?

MBFS is the ultimate authority. Maybe if you know the original selling dealer, you could ask them to clarify the BAP terms when the car was put in service?

 

[emailchrishall]

MBFS is the ultimate authority. Maybe if you know the original selling dealer, you could ask them to clarify the BAP terms when the car was put in service?

This is a good point. I trusted the guy I bought it from. He even had "No BAP" listed in the information he put on eBay. I didn't think to ask for more information and didn't even think I needed to check it out. But I've had mine to the Smart Center to have maintenance done. We had a conversation about it and he found in the records that mine was originally purchased out right from the beginning. So I lucked out for trusting.


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[InjuredAgain]

MBFS is the ultimate authority. Maybe if you know the original selling dealer, you could ask them to clarify the BAP terms when the car was put in service?

Thanks to you and MB DNA.

I'm still trying to get into an ED and there are some low mileage local ones available at low asking prices. Some mention BAP being in effect but others don't say anything about it.

There are still some new, never-titled 2015's available with asking prices in the $15-16k range. In my state, I don't have to pay sales tax (10%) on an electric vehicle, and with the $7500 federal tax credit, that means my effective price is around $8k, with BAP on top. Since I do have to pay sales tax on a used electric vehicle, that means that anything over about $5k with BAP is within $3k of a new one, so I'd be silly to go used.

$15k is getting close. I'd love to get the same kind of deal as you did but I just don't see that as being possible. I'd immediately buy a brand new one if it were $13k with BAP on top. Maybe this will happen closer to the end of the year when the existing 2015's are about to become a three model year old vehicle. Hopefully there will still be some at that time.

 

[10470]

n my state, I don't have to pay sales tax (10%) on an electric vehicle, and with the $7500 federal tax credit, that means my effective price is around $8k, with BAP on top...

I'd immediately buy a brand new one if it were $13k with BAP on top.

You might want to consider buying one of those new 2015s with no BAP. That's what I did; the option is yours when the car is new.

If you were to forgo the $80/month BAP, your battery would still have a full 4-year warranty.

The less you pay for a full-term warrantied smart ED, the less sense it makes to get the BAP. Whenever ED batteries fail – a very rare case, in itself – they usually do so quickly, when the car is near new. The longer you live with your battery, the less likely it would be to prematurely fail.

Do the math, and consider the risk. What's a 2015 ED going to be worth in mid-2021, in the very unlikely case that it should die of battery failure at the 4-year mark? In the same 4-year span of time, you would've spent $3840 for BAP.

 

[InjuredAgain]

You might want to consider buying one of those new 2015s with no BAP. That's what I did; the option is yours when the car is new.

If you were to forgo the $80/month BAP, your battery would still have a full 4-year warranty.

The less you pay for a full-term warrantied smart ED, the less sense it makes to get the BAP. Whenever ED batteries fail – a very rare case, in itself – they usually do so quickly, when the car is near new. The longer you live with your battery, the less likely it would be to prematurely fail.

Do the math, and consider the risk. What's a 2015 ED going to be worth in mid-2021, in the very unlikely case that it should die of battery failure at the 4-year mark? In the same 4-year span of time, you would've spent $3840 for BAP.

So pay an extra $5k up front to go no BAP? What do you think is the possibility that with more widespread availability of the 453 EDs, that the BAP will just go away all together for unsold 451 ED's? Paying an extra $5k right now to outright buy seems a bit risky.

And then there is still the unverified/unresolved claim by that one dealer that we can walk away from BAP after one full year, something they said they would be willing to put, in writing, to me.

It just feels like this isn't the right time to buy, even though I'm ready and willing to buy right away. If only there were another deal like what you got!

 

[MB DNA]

NEW MY15/16 ED's have become fewer and fewer - and the "deal" Steven got on a MY14 was a perfect storm and I doubt any more of those FREE ED's will be found.

Can't really debate fact or fiction - "the possibility that with more widespread availability of the 453 EDs, that the BAP will just go away all together for unsold 451 ED's?" or "we can walk away from BAP after one full year, something they said they would be willing to put, in writing, to me" as you haven't done the deal. :shrug:

Go buy that ED and we might have some NEW BAP material to debate?

 

[10470]

So pay an extra $5k up front to go no BAP?

Why an extra $5000 without BAP? Mine didn't come with any opt-out charge.

 

[10470]

... the "deal" Steven got on a MY14 was a perfect storm and I doubt any more of those FREE ED's will be found.

That's why I call him Fred.

 

[InjuredAgain]

Why an extra $5000 without BAP? Mine didn't come with any opt-out charge.

I thought the standard deal was either take BAP or pay an extra $5k to outright buy the battery?

 

[10470]

I thought the standard deal was either take BAP or pay an extra $5k to outright buy the battery?

You may want to go back to the dealers and ask them directly how much the car costs (1) with BAP, and (2) without BAP.

With mine, it was the same price either way.